Comments on: Free as in beer? Nobody gives me any free beer! http://piestar.net/2009/07/17/free-as-in-beer-nobody-gives-me-any-free-beer/ A pragmatic look at the state of FOSS Fri, 11 May 2012 02:40:08 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: wbkang http://piestar.net/2009/07/17/free-as-in-beer-nobody-gives-me-any-free-beer/#comment-2416 wbkang Mon, 10 Aug 2009 21:50:31 +0000 http://piestar.net/?p=129#comment-2416 Would you mind if I translate this into Korean and post it to a Korean programming forum*? I'll, of course, provide links to the original post and your name. Thank you! * http://gall.dcinside.com/list.php?id=programming if you care you care to know where I am posting to. Would you mind if I translate this into Korean and post it to a Korean programming forum*? I’ll, of course, provide links to the original post and your name. Thank you!

* http://gall.dcinside.com/list.php?id=programming if you care you care to know where I am posting to.

]]> By: Kerberos http://piestar.net/2009/07/17/free-as-in-beer-nobody-gives-me-any-free-beer/#comment-2410 Kerberos Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:35:17 +0000 http://piestar.net/?p=129#comment-2410 "Sounds good, Until someone releases a GPL or BSD thing similar to what you make, meaning people who want to use for commercial purposes will simply skip you. Free software may not completely replace commercial software any time soon, but it will (and already has) made making money selling commercial software more difficult." So what you're saying is I go to the trouble of developing and testing something only to have some freetard copy the whole thing (stealing my interface and ideas) and give it away gratis? Sounds like freedom - destroying your fellow programmers livelihoods. “Sounds good, Until someone releases a GPL or BSD thing similar to what you make, meaning people who want to use for commercial purposes will simply skip you.

Free software may not completely replace commercial software any time soon, but it will (and already has) made making money selling commercial software more difficult.”

So what you’re saying is I go to the trouble of developing and testing something only to have some freetard copy the whole thing (stealing my interface and ideas) and give it away gratis? Sounds like freedom – destroying your fellow programmers livelihoods.

]]> By: dude http://piestar.net/2009/07/17/free-as-in-beer-nobody-gives-me-any-free-beer/#comment-2395 dude Sun, 09 Aug 2009 23:45:16 +0000 http://piestar.net/?p=129#comment-2395 Have you ever wondered why Linux is still very hard to use? Why you still have to use terminal and things just don't work as good as they do on Windows. They wouldn't be selling support if Linux were perfect. But you can get on top of the heap with subpar product if you opensource it thanks to tools on Slashdot and free marketing they provide. Have you ever wondered why Linux is still very hard to use? Why you still have to use terminal and things just don’t work as good as they do on Windows.

They wouldn’t be selling support if Linux were perfect. But you can get on top of the heap with subpar product if you opensource it thanks to tools on Slashdot and free marketing they provide.

]]> By: joe http://piestar.net/2009/07/17/free-as-in-beer-nobody-gives-me-any-free-beer/#comment-2338 joe Thu, 06 Aug 2009 16:07:24 +0000 http://piestar.net/?p=129#comment-2338 "My next project I plan on releasing as CC Non-Commercial with a paid-for license option. I am not going to just place it under the GPL, shout ‘Free as in Freedom’ from the rooftops as RMS would like and then wonder why I can’t make any money off of it." Kerberos, Sounds good, Until someone releases a GPL or BSD thing similar to what you make, meaning people who want to use for commercial purposes will simply skip you. Free software may not completely replace commercial software any time soon, but it will (and already has) made making money selling commercial software more difficult. “My next project I plan on releasing as CC Non-Commercial with a paid-for license option. I am not going to just place it under the GPL, shout ‘Free as in Freedom’ from the rooftops as RMS would like and then wonder why I can’t make any money off of it.”

Kerberos,

Sounds good, Until someone releases a GPL or BSD thing similar to what you make, meaning people who want to use for commercial purposes will simply skip you.

Free software may not completely replace commercial software any time soon, but it will (and already has) made making money selling commercial software more difficult.

]]> By: Kerberos http://piestar.net/2009/07/17/free-as-in-beer-nobody-gives-me-any-free-beer/#comment-2215 Kerberos Wed, 29 Jul 2009 09:18:26 +0000 http://piestar.net/?p=129#comment-2215 Yes, you can make money from FOSS code. I never said it was impossible. The problem is the business model has to be able to make money in some other way. Some software may lend itself to this, some may not. You say that you have a choice - fine, we agree on this and if you can monetize FOSS then great. No problems from me. I've released stuff under GPL, BSD and CC before, they have their place. What the point of this post was is that the future is _not_ FOSS code, that Free Software will not cause the extinction of Commercial software, and that FOSS is only really practical from a big business perspective rather than a small developer perspective. It's the widget manufacturers that get screwed by FOSS. After all RedHat (owners of JBoss) use code others wrote. And MySQL, which you put in twice, has a dual license where they make money selling closed source versions for inclusion in proprietary products. My next project I plan on releasing as CC Non-Commercial with a paid-for license option. I am not going to just place it under the GPL, shout 'Free as in Freedom' from the rooftops as RMS would like and then wonder why I can't make any money off of it. Yes, you can make money from FOSS code. I never said it was impossible. The problem is the business model has to be able to make money in some other way. Some software may lend itself to this, some may not.

You say that you have a choice – fine, we agree on this and if you can monetize FOSS then great. No problems from me. I’ve released stuff under GPL, BSD and CC before, they have their place.

What the point of this post was is that the future is _not_ FOSS code, that Free Software will not cause the extinction of Commercial software, and that FOSS is only really practical from a big business perspective rather than a small developer perspective. It’s the widget manufacturers that get screwed by FOSS. After all RedHat (owners of JBoss) use code others wrote. And MySQL, which you put in twice, has a dual license where they make money selling closed source versions for inclusion in proprietary products.

My next project I plan on releasing as CC Non-Commercial with a paid-for license option. I am not going to just place it under the GPL, shout ‘Free as in Freedom’ from the rooftops as RMS would like and then wonder why I can’t make any money off of it.

]]> By: James Dixon http://piestar.net/2009/07/17/free-as-in-beer-nobody-gives-me-any-free-beer/#comment-2203 James Dixon Tue, 28 Jul 2009 13:45:10 +0000 http://piestar.net/?p=129#comment-2203 You are right that beer is very seldom free. The phrase 'free as is speech, not free as in beer' is confusing for many people. I wish the phrase was 'free as in freedom, not free as in freebie'. Either way you are missing the point - open source or 'free' software is not meant to be zero cost. Anyone who really knows about this subject will tell you that. The only people who claim that this software is zero cost are people, like yourself, who claim it is in order to dismiss it using terms like 'communism'. You are creating a lie just so you can argue against it - a waste of time and effort. Open source works well in situations where everyone works in their best interests (selfishly), and by doing so everyone gains. For example I have found and fixed bugs in open source software, and I have contributed those fixes to the projects. Why? Because I don't want to maintain the patch myself, it will be more work in the long term for me. By acting selfishly (reducing my long-term costs) I benefit the software and all the other users of it. I wrote proprietary software for 15 years before switching to open source and I can tell you that as a model for software development an open source approach is a much more efficient model than a closed-source one. And, yes, you can make money as a development shop under a FOSS model - see MySQL, RedHat, JBoss, Zimbra, MySQL, Hyperic, Alfresco, Pentaho etc. No-one (except the ranting free-software puritans) says that you have to open-source your code. No-one (except the ranting proprietary puritans) says that open source is a bad development model. Its just a choice you have. Choice is a good thing. You are right that beer is very seldom free. The phrase ‘free as is speech, not free as in beer’ is confusing for many people. I wish the phrase was ‘free as in freedom, not free as in freebie’.

Either way you are missing the point – open source or ‘free’ software is not meant to be zero cost. Anyone who really knows about this subject will tell you that. The only people who claim that this software is zero cost are people, like yourself, who claim it is in order to dismiss it using terms like ‘communism’. You are creating a lie just so you can argue against it – a waste of time and effort.

Open source works well in situations where everyone works in their best interests (selfishly), and by doing so everyone gains. For example I have found and fixed bugs in open source software, and I have contributed those fixes to the projects. Why? Because I don’t want to maintain the patch myself, it will be more work in the long term for me. By acting selfishly (reducing my long-term costs) I benefit the software and all the other users of it.

I wrote proprietary software for 15 years before switching to open source and I can tell you that as a model for software development an open source approach is a much more efficient model than a closed-source one.

And, yes, you can make money as a development shop under a FOSS model – see MySQL, RedHat, JBoss, Zimbra, MySQL, Hyperic, Alfresco, Pentaho etc.

No-one (except the ranting free-software puritans) says that you have to open-source your code. No-one (except the ranting proprietary puritans) says that open source is a bad development model. Its just a choice you have. Choice is a good thing.

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