Piestar

“Please, we know that GIMP sucks.”

Just like we know Linux sucks. Doesn’t stop you guys from always saying it’s better.

As for it not being available on Linux, just like millions of other applications, it’s Linux’ fault for being hostile to commercial closed-source software. Enjoy your lack of useful & quality software as it’s not going to change anytime soon.

looool, you seem to think that I’m part of the community that hates Microsoft and all closed source software.

““One reason why I love Linux is that I feel “at home” with it. It feels like the perfect operating system for me. I think this is because I’m an open source web developer. I like to use an operating system that has the same cause as me.”

That’s your reason? What a crock of shit.

““Another reason is how simple it is for me. A lot of people will call me crazy for saying that Linux is easy for me to use, but it’s true. There’s a lot less clutter in the front end interface than Windows, and it gets straight to the point.”

How the fuck are you confused about the interface? Vanilla Windows installs a grand total of five things to the desktop. I can understand complaining about the crap OEM’s install, but if you’re confused by the default interface, you are crazy. Oh, by the way, I thought GUIs were evil and for stupid ass n00bs and the terminal was infinitely more powerful?

Yeah, I also love how easy to use GNOME is, what with the fact that for *years* you could not set a static IP address while on a wireless network due to a limitation in NetworkManager. Don’t even start me on the unstable clusterfuck that is KDE.

““The repositories are a huge reason why I like Linux. Instead of having to hunt through a website to find the downloads page, all you have to do is open up the repository and type in the name of a program and it’ll search for it.”

Its so awesome, waiting nearly a year for a current version of an app to show up in the repo. And by then, its obsolete anyway. I also enjoy dumbass dependency errors caused by goddamn typos in package requirements, or multiple versions of packages due to obscure technical minutiae.

“The stability of Linux is another reason I love it. Unlike Windows, which really begins to slow down after the first month, Linux has been just as fast as it was the first day. Also, when you download a program on Linux, it doesn’t spread through your computer like a zombie virus like it does in Windows.

”
I have not had a BSOD in 5 years on any one of my machines. As for the speed thing, its hard to tell, seeing as how I had problems with fucking Compiz lagging windows and the Beagle indexer grinding my hard drive 24/7 and killing file I/O.

““You know how when you buy a new Windows computer, it usually has all sorts of programs that you don’t need preinstalled? Of course you do! Well, this doesn’t happen in Linux. With most distributions, all you have preinstalled are the essentials, which is perfect.”

Yeah, I appreciate how out of the box SuSE had no less than 3 different media players, 5 IM applications, and packages to support Ham Radio equipment. And what bloated programs are you going on about? Default XP installs fucking IE and Outlook and Windows Messenger, all of which can be easily removed.

““And the last reason that I’m going to say is programs. Many people say that there are no good programs for Linux. This is very untrue. If there is a program for only Windows, you’re bound to find a copy of it for Linux.””

How about any of my games? Any thing that beats Half Life 2? Oblivion? Morrowind? Fuck, Deus Ex? Hmm, none there huh? How about web browsers…yeah, you have Firefox, except now the Linux version is slow and as unstable as a schizophrenic mental patient. Let’s try photo editing apps…anything like Photoshop? And you admit the Gimp blows!

Frankly, your entire post is just a list of vague attitudes and emotions you have about Linux, and contains no concrete facts to back up your assertions.

Hmmm, no. It’s not a PS 5 knockoff. It doesn’t even compare to v4.

As for the price, I couldn’t care less at this point. There’s tons of great inexpensive options. There’s just no excuse to be stuck with such garbage.

Thomas B, no one is going to waste their time on your “blog” anymore, so why do you keep trying to drive traffic to it by appearing here?

Plenty of people have wasted time posting there, only to have you throw a fit and delete entire threads.

Shouldn’t you be using OpenSolaris Linux?

“Couldn’t find package ‘outlook’.
apt-get install aperture

apt-get install visualstudio
Couldn’t find package ‘visualstudio’.”

Why the hell would there be Microsoft programs on Linux?

“Why the hell would there be quality software on Linux?”

There, fixed that for you.

“Neuxiz > Half Life 2
Diamonin > Oblivion
Diamonin > Morrowind”

You’ve never actually played any of the games I mentioned, have you? I love that you compare Nexuiz, a shitty clone of Quake arena, to the most critically acclaimed FPS of the last seven years. And an MMO to the Elder Scrolls…

Quit posting under my name <_<

Linux sucks! Windows 4evar!

Hhahahahaha, here’s some of Thomas B’s L337 C++ code!

I normally wouldn’t make fun of a beginner, but since he says he’s so l337 and knows more than us…

#include

using namespace std;

int main()
{

cout << “MP BASIC CALCULATOR \n”;

cout <> x; // this takes what i put as the number and stores it as “x”

cout <> y; // this does the same as the last cin, but it stores the input as “y”

cout << “\nWhen added, your answer is: ” <<x + y; // instead of using classes, this section just couts the answers for everything at once
cout << “\nWhen subtracted, your answer is: ” <<x – y;
cout << “\nWhen multiplied, your answer is: ” <<x * y;
cout << “\nWhen divided, your answer is: ” <<x / y;

return 0;
}

Wow, that’s nearly as good as most n00bs were doing back in 1991 using Turbo C++.

20 years behind just like Linux!

I love his commenting style, for example I never would have known what “Enter a Number” does if it weren’t for his comment stating “asks user for a number”. Ditto for “Another Number” and his useful comment stating “asks for another number.”

At this rate, he’ll be contributing to those FOSS projects in no time!

ps I see that a few lines of his “code” are inexplicably missing after being pasted here. Check out his “blog” or LH to see it in its entirety.

I love that new Wikipedia definition for GIMP:

Gimp: the complexity of Photoshop and the power of MS Paint.

ROFL!

if someone sees something that is lacking, and feels they can do better, they can do so and if they are successful they get rewarded and the world gets a better product. In the FOSS world that same person would probably not spend what little free time they had to work on something for no return.

That or they’ll only be motivated to do the “fun stuff”, until that “itch” is scratched. And here’s another major factor swept under the rug by FOSS advocates: not all programming aspects are fun yet it all needs to get done in order to create usable products. Sure, programmers might practice their craft even in the absence of compensation, but part of the compensation goes toward providing motivation to tolerate the un-fun stuff. The FOSS philosophy explains this away by claiming with open source development, these holes will be filled by people who don’t like the intellectually challenging work but will gladly pour through bug reports and QA issues. I think we all know the reality behind that one.

I have in the past installed Gimp for my (high school) users, both the generic windows port and the one that tries to make it look like photoshop. In monitoring my users I saw all of them using mspaint instead.

I then installed Paint.NET. Many still use mspaint, but a noticeable percentage have discovered the new application. Certainly more than ever bothered with Gimp.

I myself prefer the older editions of PSP, before Corel took over and began taking it in a new direction. Back in the day LView was also a nice and simple program that I liked (mostly back in Win3.1 / 98).

As for the name, taking the definition of “Gimp” as “one who is crippled”, I think that the chosen name for the project is a self fulfilling prophecy of a sort.

I will certainly never touch it again

Whenever I hear about Linux UI design, I invariably think of this comic:

http://www.ok-cancel.com/comic/4.html

No, it’s not incompatible. It’s just impossible because like you said, a lot of the community is basically a cult that revolves around FSF, so they’re not supposed to like proprietary software. You might be using a free operating system, but that doesn’t mean the software has to be free.

Though I certainly find it cute that you’re trying to appeal to everyone, even though it’s a case of two fundamentally incompatible viewpoints, it needs to be pointed out that Linux IS deliberatly incompatible with commercial software – even on a technical level, this is by design. Look up Greg HK (or is it KH?)’s piece on abi-compatanility. The kernel API is intentionally unstable as an attempt to strong arm devices manufacturers to release the code for their drivers (kernel devs are known to intentionally remove hooks that blobs depend on) They argue that if you release the code, they’ll keep it working for you – and Greg tries to argue that retaining ABI and API compatibility in the kernel is impossible – ignoring altogether that FreeBSD retains binary compatibility with both Linux 2.4 and 2.6.x via alternate subsystems, as well as retaining API compatibility with version 2.x, 3.x, 4.x, 5.x, 6.x and 7.x all via the same method. Or that Solaris retains a stable ABI and API (and uses containers to retain backward compatibility), or that Windows retains nearly 3 decades of backward compatibility.

The incompatibility is intentional. They’ve even tried to argue that BLOBs are a derivative work, and as such a violation of the GPL.

Free software itself is a cult centered around the FSF, we agree on this, and Linux is free software. You’ll notice that few have a problem with open source itself (BSD, CDDL, MIT, etc) because it is largely free of politics (aside from the minor politics that both the MPL (Mozilla) and CDDL (Sun) are intentionally GPL-incompatible.

There’s also the tidbit that the community seems to make it very hard for any Linux based business venture to be commercially viable (see how everyone praises Canonical but nobody actually buys their boxed copies or support contracts – or how the community intentionally undercuts Red Hat with CentOS – or how there’s a boycott of Novel going on because the community screams bloody murder every time they act like a business – or how the community largely hates Sun and seeks to destroy Solaris, even though Sun is the single, largest corporate contributor to open source (and yes that includes Red Hat, Novel and IBM).

I’d be curious what your users would do with a link named something like GPaint.

I think if not the name, the generally atrocious UI (I actually like the menu-based UI to a certain degree, mind you), the lack of workflow enhancing functionality or generally basic functionality would seal gimp’s fate just as well.

Adjustment layers are a big one. Fine-grained layer blending effects and options are another (even for trivial things such as a simple drop shadow it takes considerably more effort to do in gimp), non-destructive editing is another (which is also why adjustment layers are so important!).

Then there’s the lack of 16-bit and 32-bit floating point colour-depth, the lack of in-built HDR support, The lack of CMYK, the lack of Pantones (or any reliable, compatible colour-matching system), the lack of decent colour-calibration and management facilities, (afaik) the lack of a clean way of using the aformentioned decent colour management system to use multiple profiles to simulate what the piece, or print will look like under different kinds of light (and even on different material, not everyone is limited to print-paper or even glossy photo-paper!), no typography tools to speak of, no support for absurdly large files (when you’re working with rasters, you work in 1:1 scale – since you can’t scale up without degrading quality), no support for printing to large-format printers (which are generally not supported in Linux to begin with), so support for importing from a negative scanner, no support for rotoscoping (in a rather clever way in Photoshop, mind you – importing video as multi-layer images, each frame having its own layer) etc

Scripting as an automation feature is nice, but why settle for scripting, when you can both script AND record macros (as in photoshop)?

Granted the later batch of missing features is generally reserved for use by professionals, media/design/art/digiphoto/video students, “prosumers” and advanced amateurs.

The thing with Gimp is that it isn’t even the most feature-complete open source raster editor (that distinction goes to either Paint.NET or Krita), nor the most feature complete raster editor for Linux (Pixel (formerly Pixel32 take that honour, though I’d argue that Corel’s PhotoPaint 9 is still more functional, and if you can find it, costs less than Pixel (~$30 vs. free).

Honestly, why bother when for $70 (excluding educational discount) you can get Corel’s Graphics suite, and get a top-tier Vector drawing program comparable to Illustrator (with the caveat that Draw is line-based and geared toward print, pre-press and desktop publishing, but also includes duplexing, multi-paging and a slew of page-layout features, whereas Illustrator is curve-based and geared toward designers, though with more advanced typography functionality) and PhotoPaint, the closest thing there is to Photoshop?

HAH! And I just saw Tux Sux’s post. Corel FTW!

“decently priced ones as well”

And that’s without any student rebates, upgrade pricing, special offers, mail in rebates, volume discounts (for workplaces), previous versions being available for dirt cheap and so on.

Thanks for the kinds words <3

But here you’re barely scratching the surface, even from a limited viewpoint.

I know, and it may not look like it, but I do try to be as concise as possible, while still trying to fully explore the point, otherwise I’d go on for far too long =/

I never bring up Painter (I *love* Corel Painter. Painter on it’s own justifies buying a high end tablet with tilt and interchangeable pens!) in Gimp/Photoshop discussions because it’s a completely different product, with a completely different scope, purpose and featureset – wet pixels and simulated painting (and simulating how different paints with different brushes interact both with each other and different canvases) it’s purely a painting program, neither Gimp nor Photoshop are.

I don’t mention Lightroom either (and I like LR *almost* as much as Aperture) since it’s focus is also entirely different, focusing primarily on photo management, the editing features are limited and imho are only truly useful to photographers – image editing applications don’t serve the same purpose, and stuff like Lightroom and Aperture are largely intended to be used in conjunction with applications like Photoshop (say, if you want to do HDR) Editor for creation, or post-processing if doing photography, manager for post post-processing, and Asset manager for organization.

It’s agreed though, there are plenty of cost-effective, more functional non-Photoshop applications readily available and that gimp doesn’t hold a handle to- PhotoPaint, Paint.NET, Pixel Editor, Pixelmator, PhotoImpact, Paint Shop Pro, Photoshop Elements, Ability Photopaint, PhotoPerfect, Pixia…

And even on Linux, there are reasonably priced, better solutions as well: PhotoPaint 9, Pixel Editor, and Krita.

could easily make a “GIMP sucks” blog, and have no problem coming up with articles almost daily for my entire life)

Agreed. It’d be depressing if it weren’t so hilarious.

The vector side of things is in even worse shape, mind you.

Version 2.8 is coming. With not totally retarded MDI shit for a change.

Now it’ll finally tie with Photoshop 2.5:
-both have a “just ok” interface
-the GIMP’ed up editor has a couple small (hardly noticeable) things that photoshop 2.5 didn’t have (being 16 years younger kind of helps)
-and yet, Photoshop 2.5 still has better a CMYK mode. And Lab color. And Pantone swatches, and…

Congrats to Linux! You’re now only 16 years out of date for the most part. Another 10 years and you might finally catch up to Photoshop v4 (nevermind we’ll be using Photoshop CS10 by then)

As you admit yourself, you don’t know how to stroke a path in GIMP. Engough said.

I’m happy with my ubuntu, love almost everything about it. Switched over from windows a couple of years ago after yet another unavoidable re-installation, figured I might as well try something else, since I don’t play any games anyway.

But the moment I installed photoshop on my ‘buntu, was the moment I felt like I could officially say goodbye to windows. Haven’t looked back since.

Running PS CS4 now, it works perfectly. Haven’t dusted off my old tablet yet, don’t own a printer, so I can’t comment on compatibility in that respect, but for my needs it’s just brilliant. Those include web design, photo retouching, plugin-art, and font play.

As for GIMP… I tried it, looked through a tutorial on doing something completely trivial, and felt nauseous for a moment. Closed the tab. Uninstalled GIMP. The end.

…this blogger is a real dwebe….First GIMP can do most of what PS can. PS 8 has been great but I’m not going to upgrade…

The people who offer gimp do so…not to replace PS but to offer a substitute…

News has it that Adobe may release a version for Linux as its becoming a more popular OS…

And those that listsen to bitter twisted F… then go and part with a thousand bucks….