09.11
Apparently it’s all settled, thanks to the freetard analogy capabilities:
Don Whitbeck settles the question of “Linux has too many choices” once and for all with irrefutable logic:”Let’s just have one flavor of ice cream. How about vanilla? All that choice is bewildering. “
Or maybe not. Ice cream is an end in itself. A more realistic statement would be this:
Would you want 1,000 slightly different shaped tubs of ice cream all only able to fit in budget vanilla, or one tub that you could put any flavour you wanted in it?
I know which I would rather have.
An over reliance on analogy illustrates a weak argument – saying two things are in fact two other incredibly tenuously connected things and since they are better the original thing is better is intellectually dishonest.
A reliance on analogy just illustrates you don’t have any real point. Analogy is only useful when who you are talking to is unable to understand the point in the current terms. Using it when both people understand the subject fine is specious at best, lying at worst.
You don’t understand power of choise. When user want custom distro for speicalized needs they make own distro. When user want custom version of windows no there ability to modify windows distributions.
Analogies are perhaps the most misused rhetoric employed by freetards (with the whole free-as-in-beer thing and such) and many others. I am studying analogy this term, hopefully I can come up with a better argument against those people.
“You don’t understand power of choise.”
You don’t understand the fallacy of choice.
“When user want custom distro for speicalized needs they make own distro.”
Yes, end users are like, totally into that! Grandma using LFS, fo shizzle.
“When user want custom version of windows no there ability to modify windows distributions.”
Except that even if users don’t actually want this, there ALREADY are such versions out there. You can use older versions (leaner, less featured) or newer versions. And different editions of the said version, with different feature sets (Ultimate, Pro, Home, whatever they want to call them). And right onto every installer CD out there (yes, including XP) there are tools to do just this, along with full documentation (so you can choose which components you install or not, and make it unattended too). For fancier needs, there are server versions. There is also XP Embedded. And WinCE and Win Mobile. There is also WinFLP (which comes with even more tools). And with more recent versions, there are even more tools like DSIM (and WAIK and MDT and so on). And that’s besides the other well known tools like nlite and vlite… And there are TONS more options which we haven’t even got into yet.
You just have no idea what you’re talking about… Just like 99.999% of other freetards.
Mwahahahahaha! Kerberos! I’m really really beginning to enjoy your blog(-ins)!
Well written, irrefutable logic, debunking of freetard myths and propaganda! What more could one ask for?
“Would you want 1,000 slightly different shaped tubs of ice cream all only able to fit in budget vanilla… ”
When was the last time that you went to a super market. I’m pretty sure you just described each flavor section in the ice cream dept. People get by just fine choosing whether they want bluebell or mayfield or the 9 bargain brands because they took the time to understand their own preferences.
Unfortunately, doing the same thing with technology is apparently something for geeks.
“When user want custom distro for speicalized needs they make own distro.”
Yes, because we really need 5000 just-the-same distros with a different wallpaper and shit brown theme. That’s just what Linux needs!
Meanwhile, versions of Windows actually differ from each other meaningfully.
“Unfortunately, doing the same thing with technology is apparently something for geeks.”
The difference is that changing ice cream flavors is trivial; changing operating systems due to stupid differences that shouldn’t exist in the first place is several orders of magnitude more difficult.
When user want custom version of windows no there ability to modify windows distributions.
I’ve said this over and over again, look into either Microsoft’s Shared Source Initiative, their various program targeting the education sector, or even the Windows Research Kernel. Or, if you don’t plan on distributing it, and are fortunate enough to live in a jurisdiction using French Civil Law, you can outright decompile and reverse engineer Windows to your heart’s content – The EULA does not apply, we have no contract law (we do, however have the Book Of Obligations, which handles agreenents and contracts – which disallows a contract from imposing any restrictions on things allowed (or not-disallowed) by civil law as well as allowing or demanding behavior which is not allowed by law. The Windows EULA itself acknowledges that it is subject to local laws, and does not hold up in Civil Law jurisdiction – we’ve got no legal restriction on reverse-engineering.
That’s for the innards, if we’re making a direct comparison to how distro-forking works in practice, on the Linux side, very little, if anything gets changed under the hood – in the early days, the biggest distinction between distributions was the package management (or in some cases, the configuration panels — see old school Mandrake). These days the vast majority of distributions differ only in cosmetics – different default wallpaper or theme, different default desktop/window manager, different choice of bundled applications – none of this requires source access, and all of this is easily possible in Windows.
Your argument is based on false assumptions, and complete ignorance of how things work in practice.
You’re also pretending that your average user hacks up their kernel and the inner-working of their operating system – in practice, it is really only large corporations or entities with sufficient funds that do this – and you can either take advantage of SSI, or pay Microsoft to do it for you.
“When was the last time that you went to a super market. I’m pretty sure you just described each flavor section in the ice cream dept. People get by just fine choosing whether they want bluebell or mayfield or the 9 bargain brands because they took the time to understand their own preferences.”
This is exactly my point. We are now arguing over ice cream, and whoever ‘wins’ the debate will then claim to have ‘won’ the argument – only operating systems are *not* ice cream and this discussion has absolutely nothing to do with the point in hand.
My point is ‘most desktop distros are functionally identical, only differing in minor, inconsequential ways and the claims of you having ‘choice’ are false’. No analogies needed.
It doesn’t matter if you ‘choose’ PCLinuxOS, Debian, Ubuntu, Suse, Mint, Mepis, Slackware or even Gentoo, the available applications will all be identical, and most likely so will the WM.
“It doesn’t matter if you ‘choose’ PCLinuxOS, Debian, Ubuntu, Suse, Mint, Mepis, Slackware or even Gentoo, the available applications will all be identical, and most likely so will the WM.”
I’m not strictly disagreeing with you, but most of the larger distributions, with the exception of Gentoo and Slackware, patch their most important components heavily. As a case in point, consider the SLED menu that is available in openSUSE, which I personally think is great. Ubuntu ships firefox with a modified plugin installer that can actually install flash to the entire system. Its finishing touches like these that in my mind make a distribution worth using, as opposed to, how many times has OpenOffice been rev’ed over the last few versions.
The only considerations you have for ice cream is amount, taste, and nutrition. Furthermore ice cream is not a tool; it’s a food. People don’t judge food the same way they judge tools.
What makes computers different than many other tools is that since people do not understand computers and thus don’t know what to look for in a product they throw their arms in the air when they are confronted with too many choices.
You understand not again. Kharkhalash stop arguing for m$ crapy code that write. linux not blue screen every five minutes. linux not impose drm evil user on dvd for playback. Linux give choise user too much pay without.
Kharkhalash and Kerberos got PWNED by Declination.
@LinuxLover
“linux not blue screen every five minutes”
True enough; Linux gives a black screen, or just completely locks up. Windows doesn’t bluescreen “every five minutes” unless there is bad hardware, bad drivers, or corruption in system files, none of which Linux would survive long either. Please do not pretend Linux does not crash fatally – I’ve seen just as many screens in airports, shops, ATMs etc. with kernel panics as I have BSODs, if not more.
“linux not impose drm evil user on dvd for playback”
More bloody FOSS hypocrisy, word twisting and double-think. DRM is RIGHTS MANAGEMENT. Nothing more. It’s not “evil”. It’s not spying on you. It merely enforces the right of the copyright holder to stop you from making unauthorised copies by digital means. Don’t attempt to abuse the rights of the content’s creator, and you won’t even know the DRM is there, in most cases.
As far as playback is concened – the majority don’t care about DRM. They just want to watch a DVD.
Please remember that the FSF is the rights management enforcer of the GPL (thanks to Bryan Lunduke for pointing that out). The Linux kernel also supports the Trusted Platform Module on motherboards; the dreaded “Palladium”. Is “rights management”, digital or otherwise, so evil now?
“Linux give choise user too much pay without”
A linux user can choose window manager, distribution and so on, but when it comes to apps – the things computers are FOR, they’re still stuck with the same set – Firefox, OOo, GIMP etc. Can I choose Photoshop on Linux? AVID Media Composer? 3D Studio MAX? InDesign? Sage? Where’s my “choice”?
Kharkhalash and Kerberos got PWNED by Declination.
Apparently, your definition of “pwn” differs wildly from the norm. Nothing in that post refutes anything I’ve said, and in fact reinforces the point I had made – the distinctions between distributions are cosmetic, while not actually addressing the central point I was making – the trivial cosmetic changes can also be applied to Windows.
TuxRulz got PWNED by his own illiteracy!
You understand not again.
I understand just fine – it would appear that you, on the other hand, have poorer reading comprehension skills than writing skills, which says a lot. (English isn’t my first language either, don’t give me that excuse).
Kharkhalash stop arguing for m$ crapy code that write.
I’ m not, I’m only stating that your argument that the Windows source is not accessible is patently wrong.
linux not blue screen every five minutes.
Neither does any version of Windows released in the past decade, what’s your point?
linux not impose drm evil user on dvd for playback.
I have no objection to DRM. But if you do, your blame is misplaced. If you want to play back big media’s content, you play by their rules, it’s simple.
Not that I’ve encountered problems with playing DVD movies on my Macs or Windows PCs.
Linux give choise user too much pay without.
Jesus flaming christ, are you Yoda or retarded?
Can I choose Photoshop on Linux? AVID Media Composer? 3D Studio MAX? InDesign? Sage? Where’s my “choice”?
M$ Shill!
Upi have plently of choices! (They just happen to all be vastly inferior) if you can’t make it work, then you don’t deserve to use a computer FREEEEEEEEEEDDDDDOOOM! WILLIAM WALLACE RAN ON LINUX!
(I think I just burned through a week’s worth of sarcasm).
LinuxLover and Tux Rulz got thoroughly PWNED by Kharkhalash.
..not that anyone’s surprised.
Kharkhalash again you not understand linux advantages. Linux provide capability realtimes for embedded. Many appliance use linuxbecause of hard realtime oswhich not in present windows. NTFS crash too much for realtime cabaplities. I seeNTFS failure alls the time in data recovery field. Ext4not get so fragmented or fail so much.Stop being idiot Kharkhalash and pull head from sand. Linux have 20 trillion budged tollar for research so they produce much better product than microsoft.
lol @ oiaohm retard
Linux offers you too much trivial choices between a lot of really bad options. Only retards use Linux.
At least, Linux users have Freedom from quality and useful software. Thank you FSF for that!
“LinuxLover and Tux Rulz got thoroughly PWNED by Kharkhalash.”
I am glad he’s on the same side as me, I wouldn’t fancy my chances in a debate
LinuxLover said: 2009.09.13 17:41
Kharkhalash again you not understand linux advantages. Linux provide capability realtimes for embedded.
OH NOES!
Someone let Oiaohm out of his time cube!
Well done, I can’t tell if that’s actually Oiaohm or not!
@Kerberos <3
@Thomas B.
Either someone is pulling a joke, or *GASP* could you, as well, have seen the light??
That wasn’t me. I wouldn’t call my self a retard. I did, however, criticize the FSF in this post on my blog.
That was me, I am a retard.
The FSF still sucks, and so does Linux.
<_< stop
>_> start
ROFLCOPTER
Best Oiaohm clone ever. It’s virtually indistinguishable from the genuine article.
I’m tired of all the PAID FSF SHILLS here, such as Thomas B.
@ Ted
Thank you! It is good to hear someone else pointing out the Trusted Computing modules which have been in the Linux kernel for some time now.
Whevener I bring it up, it is usually ignored, however one loontard recently denied it and when given a link to the Wikipedia article about it, just said the entry was made up!
Linux makes me real horny. My dick inflates to its one-inch length and then I jizz in my pants.
“when given a link to the Wikipedia article about it, just said the entry was made up”
Let them try explaining the drivers!
Google for “Linux TPM”
(Results 1 – 10 of about 669,000 for Linux TPM)
And the first result;
Linux TPM Device Driver
This project provides a Linux kernel device driver to enable the TPM chip as described by Trusted Computing Group specifications. The TPM chip will enable …
tpmdd.sourceforge.net
The analogy applies to choice. Is there any good reason to limit choice?
“Is there any good reason to limit choice?”
Cake or death?