09.13
Free Software is *not* the same as Open Source.
Open Source is simply providing software with the source code so the receiving user can modify it to suit their needs.
Free Software is having the ability to freely modify and (this is the key) distribute software they have received from a 3rd party.
Free Software is being *unable* to restrict what a 3rd party does with your software.
You can very easily have non-free Open Source. In fact a large amount of software made, mainly custom stuff and most of what I do, is technically ‘Open Source’ – that is I am paid to to do it, and I give the client the source along with any binaries. It is *not* Free Software though, as the client is unlikely to give it away.
For example a large amount of commercial web apps are Open Source in that you have access to the source code, but are not Free Software as you do not have the right to redistribute the source freely.
This is the main bone of contention between the Commercial and Free Software camps – it has nothing to do with source – which is a red herring – it has to do with control. The main point of free software is to remove any and all control from the original developers and give it to the users – the software is owned by the community. Supporters of the commercial model (obviously) have a problem with this as it makes making a business out of developing software impossible – If you sell support you are in the business of support, not software. Free Software is fundamentally anti developer.
Personally I support Open Source, and plan on releasing my next project as a dual licensed Free Non-Commercial and pay for Commercial offerings. You can use it for free and give it away if you do not use it commercially, and if you want to use it commercially you will be required to pay a license fee. Which is perfectly reasonable but it is not ‘Free Software’ and would not be supported by the FSF.
Free Software is an ethical line for it’s supporters. Non-free (as the example above) is considered immoral by supporters and according to the FSF I am unethical in my request for compensation for commercial usage. According to the FSF doctrine I must relinquish all ownership over the code and give any user full source and distribution rights. If I want to make money I should sell ‘support’.
The thing is if (and many people suggest this) I was legally forced to make it ‘Free’ I would not even bother to make it in the first place. In that world the job of ‘developer’ either would not exist, or would be relegated to a role in a huge corporation where you are told what to work on. The small, independent software companies would be dead – and the software that they would have produced would not now be free, it just wouldn’t exist in the first place. So instead of having the choice to pay money for something or not have it, you’d simply not be able to have it at all. Not a situation I can support.
I think if people stopped thinking Free Software and Open Source are interchangeable terms, and that if more people found out what Free Software really is, and the implications, significantly less people would support it.
Update: I do not think that Free Software is bad, should be banned, or anything like that. I believe it is up to the developer to choose how to distribute their software and that there is nothing wrong with closed source, commercial software. It is up to the developer to choose the license, and the user to choose the software. It’s all about choice.
Yes, this is true. Many people fail to recognize the difference though, which I’m surprised hasn’t caused that much problems with the user and the developer.
Thomas B got PWNED by Declination.
You’re right. Open Source and Free Software are one and the same.
“Free Software is fundamentally anti developer.”
My friend and I reached this same conclusion and started wondering why other students in CS are so into this FLOSS cult.
“My friend and I reached this same conclusion and started wondering why other students in CS are so into this FLOSS cult.”
Having recently completed a bachelor’s in CS and being a Linux user, my feeling is that it comes from the perception that once you have sufficient “1337 hacker skillZ” you will be able to modify any part of the system to fit you liking. This gave way to the realistic understanding that I could study parts of the system for months and not be able to make any meaningful improvement to what is already there. People smarter and more experienced than I am had already done things that it would take me a tremendous amount of time.
Ultimately, I’m not so sure it is the students, but rather an easy to use Unix like environment. Many CS depts still demonstrate things on Unix as it is the “traditional” multi-user networked OS. My college used Linux in the user labs for this purpose before eventually switching to OS X (which brought fun goodies like Xgrid). Even on of my Professors with ties to Microsoft favored examples from the Linux kernel sources when actually demonstrating concepts, through the use of http://lxr.linux.no/#linux+v2.6.31/. Treatment of Windows was usually limited to how the library calls to invoke OS features where difference, i.e. fork() vs CreateProcess(/* … with 90 arguments … */).
Ultimately, this is why I think students get into FL\OSS. They are at a “Liberal” time in their lives being at a university and are interested in using an environment similar to the one they are learning about (i.e. Unix like). The end result being many of them try Linux. However, in my experience, none of my cs classmates who graduated with me joined the howling anti-Microsoft masses, but all save those who had Macs had at least installed Linux somewhere at some point.
Also, I’m amused the I Pwned someone before even posting.
As an amusing sidenote, you see similar things in the literature. I had forgotten, but I recently pulled the book back out. On page 74 of Operating Systems Concepts ed. 7 by Silberschatz et al. a Project is proposed to basically add a Hello, World system call to the linux kernel and use it in programs in order to demonstrate how to add system calls and invoke them from user land calls. I’m unfamiliar with the Windows shared-source license options, but do they extend to a sufficient amount that you could actually build your own windows kernel with a new system call?
Declination – I’m not saying that Linux is without merit. If I was ten years younger I’d probably be a massive Linux fan. Thing is, I really am not interested nor have the time to deal with the things you have to deal with in Linux. Not that there is anything wrong with an academic interest in OS’s, It’s just not where I am at.
What I am against, and this blog is largely against, is the ‘Free as in Freedom whaarrggarbbll’ mentality that splits the entire world into ‘Free’ and ‘Non-Free’, then assigns worth based entirely on this. I believe software should be judged based on utility, stability and usability – nothing else. Linux fails horribly for me on these points and it’s supporters not only don’t accept this, but insist that I am wrong, an idiot, uneducated or paid by Microsoft.
It is simply impossible to have an honest discussion about the pro’s and con’s of Linux without a fanboy going mental at you. Hence this blog – to call them the idiots they are. Ironically I (and even LH) are probably doing more good for the FOSS cause than the majority of the fanboy zealots.
Yes, see. And that’s what I don’t like either. These Linux fanboys are giving Linux the bad name. You keep criticizing Linux on it’s horrible software. I’ll agree with that to an extent. But when ever someone gives feedback to a developer, who wants feedback, the person is flamed off of the forum by other Linux users. This has happened to more than once.
I understand where you’re coming from Kerberos, I really do.
But see, I like Linux for the simplicity, the stability, and more. I’ll admit it’s not the greatest computer for the workplace outside of the server room, but I like it for the home use. I don’t need all sorts of spreadsheet programs, I don’t need big collaboration tools. I’m content with what I have: GIMP, Firefox, and Bluefish. GIMP might not have as many features as Photoshop, and sure it’s a horrible name, but this is where I say that I don’t really need Photoshop, and I don’t. I’m not a graphics designer, hell, when I had Windows all I used was MS Paint.
So please understand that I know what you mean, its just that I like Linux more than Windows.
Kerberos,
The “libre” movement is a lost cause. I remember first hearing the term used and had my first inklings that something was wrong when it occured to me that the idea they were trying to convey was so vague and nebulous that words don’t even exist in the english language to describe it properly (they even say this somewhere on their webpage). I also take the position that the FSF is actively anti-user as well, having attempted with the release of GPLv3 and Affero GPL(-whatchamabobbit) to substantially curtail valid use cases for their software.
The FOSS movement is pointless exercise in so called user freedoms which are irrelevant. The freedom that users need is the ability to control their own data through open formats and protocols that are guaranteed to be always accessible. Linux does this well, and, even to some extent, so does Microsoft having recently published a number of their specifications. Meanwhile, the open source software community continues to provide a great means of acquiring commodity components that can be molded to suit ones needs and as an invaluable learning tool.
“Free” software came first, and to this I say, The king is dead, long live the king.
It doesn’t help that the FSF has engaged in doubletalk for its entire existence. I swear they’re the ultimate “We’ve always been at war with Eastasia” entity.
The latest is that documentation, once specifically cited as a means to recoup development costs, has now turned into a fundamental human right along with source code. And they’re not just talking about normal code-level documentation, the FSF wants you to labor months over textbook-type manuals then give all that away, too. If you don’t do this then you’re as corrupt as Microsoft. Give me a break.
GNU isn’t anti-developer, it’s anti-development, period.
Declination is just a retard.
Kerberos, I’d like to go one further and inform the zealots that Open Source != Linux.
Thomas B and Declination are just more paid F$F shills.
That is win namenlos. Truly.
namenlos, in fact, all of you must be fucking deaf. I don’t know how many time’s I’ve said that I’ve despised the FSF. I don’t know how many time’s I’ve said that I would criticize Linux whenever.
Stop imitating me! I dream of being a F$F $hill. RMS is my personal god.
Hahahaha, be sure to check out the last petulant, whiny-ass post on “t3h L337 Blog”:
t3h Whiny Blog
I like how Thomas B now says “fsck Windows and fsck Windows users”, even though the freetard uses Vista!
Also, Thomas B, $tallman is not Linus’ “partner”. Linus has distanced himself as far away from the frothing fosstards as possible.
Did you get your check from $tallman yet? F$F $hill.
Hey Thomas B and other Linux zealots, Microsoft is giving away 8 meals to the hungry for every download of IE8:
BrowserForTheBetter.com
Understand? That’s something tangible. Not your stupid-ass pseudo-ideological, toe-picking, “freedom”. This actually helps people.
Oh snap! Kerberos, you may want to see this:
http://linuxevangelism.blogspot.com/2009/09/response-to-piestar.html
This is analogous to someone sitting in a Mercedes (Windows) having to hear some lunatic in a duct-taped Chevelle-Yugo amalgam (Linux) tell them that their car is “shitty” and that their Chevugo is “superior”.
POST MOAR! We are in need of it!
- maybe about the FSF being communistic?
LEAVE LINUX ALONE!! Guys enough! I keep asking you stop using my name and I told you I said I don’t agree with the FSF and you guys can’t say anything bad about Windows.
I’m tired of all this, I might just stop using Linux, since that’s what you all want anyway.
say something bad about Windows? Easy! it has a tendency of getting dog-slow over time. (at least in my experience) – and that is even if i do regular maintenance.
On the other hand, my mac is running just as fast as when i bought it, 3 years ago.
(Yes. I am dualbooting. However happy i am about OSX, i just really wanna play some of them fancy 3D games every once in a while.)
Don’t stop using Linux, just stop behaving as if it is the superior system, nomatter what needs a user might have. For instance: I make music and do photography, therefore i enjoy my mac, due to it having some preetee fine apps. for both purposes pre-installed.
In case you were wondering: NO. Audiacity CAN and WILL never top garageband. And the photoeditor in Iphoto already pwns “the gimp”. ok? (… and the fact that my guitar is plug-and-play’ish [no need for "external soundcard"] is pretty nice as well!)
“it has a tendency of getting dog-slow over time. (at least in my experience)”
I hear this a lot, and it does make me wonder, although I usually hear “My computer has gone really slow lately” and translate it internally to “I want a new and shiny one”.
I’m currently on a near three-year old Install of XP and the only slow things are the startup, from all the crap Apple have seen fit to put on my system to support iTunes, Quicktime and my iPhone, the various messengers that startup on login, and the atrociously slow startup time of Firefox 3.5. There has been no noticeable slowdown in games or other apps. I’ve also got servers at work that have been running the same install of Win2003 since 2004 with no signs of slowdown.
Maybe this could be the basis of a set of benchmarks? Benchmark a clean install, then use the computer for two years and run the same benchmark again. Use things like boot times and shutdown times too. I’d actually put money down that a 3D benchmark would actually be better after two years, due to improvements in drivers.
Aah.. But i don’t want a shiny new one.
It’s merely a question of what suited my needs the best.
It was just thomasB who claimed that we were unable to talk negatively about Windows. – which i basically proved him wrong at.
Heck, however much i like my mac, OS’X is also quite easy to critize.
@your benchmark idea: Well, i’d support the idea?
What I’ve noticed about XP installs is that the ‘scrolling bar’ phase of startup seems to take longer and longer over the years – I’d expect simply due to the registry being filled with junk.
Additionally, some run-on-startup processes seemed to take an unusual priority over Explorer, leading to a startup time that was longer than necessary for no reason.
I don’t recall these under Vista, but I only used it for about a year and a half before pretty much using OS X exclusively. My media center is running Win7 RC1, and it’s pretty damn snappy.
I need to stand up for what I believe in, and keep using Linux. That’s the problem is that people don’t want to do something that takes some work in the beginning. But that doesn’t matter because now Linux is easier to install and use than Windows.
I may use Vista sometimes for games but my box is free most of the time with the power of Linux.
@Thomas B.
“the power of linux”? BWAHAHAHAHA! – Linux is a operating system! Not some sort of higher deity!
Ooh.. And Vista installed remarkably easier than ubuntu did. (tried installing both, ’bout seven months ago.)
“I need to stand up for what I believe in, and keep using Linux. That’s the problem is that people don’t want to do something that takes some work in the beginning. But that doesn’t matter because now Linux is easier to install and use than Windows.”
‘some’ work? You’re talking nearly infinite amounts of work. My soundcard isn’t supported, because the driver simply doesn’t exist. What the fuck am I supposed to do? And no, learning C and reverse engineering it isn’t an acceptable answer. By all means, continue to assert that linux is easier to use when you’re greping through xorg.conf when it breaks in an update.
“people don’t want to do something that takes some work in the beginning”
Sorry, let me reformulate this:
people don’t want to waste their precious time fucking around with poorly documented junk for hours to get trivial things working that just works under every other OS. Like sound, video, wifi and so on (when drivers even exist). Only to have a shitty Win95-lookalike OS, but without any quality software, useful apps or fun games.
“Linux is easier to install and use than Windows”
That was a joke. Nobody can be stupid enough to actually think this way of course.
. But that doesn’t matter because now Linux is easier to install and use than Windows.
@Thomas B clone:
Impressive! however, what gives you away, is the fact that your spelling, and grammar in general, is superior to the real one’s.
“you guys can’t say anything bad about Windows”
I could go on for days about the drawbacks, bugs and annoyances in Windows, Exchange, SQL and Office.
Want examples? Here’s some for Exchange Server 2007.
Exchange 2007′s admin tools are horrible. The Exchange Management Console is unwieldy and dog-slow. I also do not like the use of PowerShell for ordinary, everyday admin tasks – I shouldn’t need to remember a cmdlet to find out how big a mailbox is, especially as I could find a list of all mailbox sizes within a mailstore in about six clicks in Exchange 2003′s admin interface. I also absolutely loathe, despise and abhor the new message tracking interface – I keep Exchange 2003 boxes online to act as SMTP gateways instead of using Exch2007′s Edge Server role, simple because the tool for tracking the progress of incoming or outgoing mail is so much better in 2003.
Those were easy. Want Office or SQL next??
However, it must be said that I’m criticizing them from a position of knowledge and experience, as I actually USE Windows and MS products, unlike the zealots and misguided converts who refuse to touch anything MS makes, but preach at length about how bad all MS products are, without knowing what the hell they’re on about.
Go and post a thread on UbuntuForums asking what’s wrong with Linux. After you beat out your burning clothing, get back to us and tell us.
Personally, I really don’t understand the “Linux can never be bad, Microsoft can never be good” mindset of the FOSS lunatic fringe. Products improve by recognizing and fixing the flaws. With the mixture of people afraid or unwilling to criticise Linux for fear of the mob and developers who refuse to listen to people who actually try to use their product and are willing to give feedback, I’m surprised Linux makes any improvement at all.
I suppose it’s mostly down to mistrust and dislike (if not outright psychotic hatred) of Microsoft. If Microsoft are involved, all the morality, ethics and ideology of the FOSS movement go out the window.
There are FOSS zealots who are celebrating the fact that an internet TV player (ITV’s) using Microsoft’s SilverLight that WORKED ON LINUX was swapped for a Flash-based system. As a result of the swap, the TV player NO LONGER WORKS IN LINUX. Gnash is just not up to the job, while Moonlight was. It was dropped in favour of something that according to their ideology is actually WORSE than SilverLight (there are few things more proprietary than Flash and few companies more Linux-hostile than Adobe), and doesn’t even bloody work for the average end-user. They’re cheering simply because an MS product was dropped.
Thought for the day – If Linux is so perfect, why do Ubuntu release a new version every six months??
You all just want me to use Windows and I don’t want to. What don’t you understand? I HATE WINDOWS! I only use it sometimes when I have no choice but since there are A TON OF LINUX GAMES coming soon, I can get rid of my Windows.
I HATE HAVING AN OS THAT WORKS! Who cares about having quality drivers for everything, the absolute very best apps for every purpose, millions of games including all the very best titles.
I’d rather have a broken shitty OS that crashes all the time (and X that dies every 15 minutes), doesn’t have drivers for half my devices, runs basically no useful or quality software whatsoever nor any fun games, and where you’re forced to use 1970′s-like CLI commands to do anything trivial, and have to fix your retarded OS when basic shit breaks every 6 months or less.
GIMP is where it’s at. Hail RMS and the FSF! Oh, I think I’m going to Bora Bora with Adam Queer next year too!
I’ve had the same install of Windows XP for three years and the boot time is exactly the same as it was before.
However, when I install XP–which has been several thousand times due to my old job–I’ve noticed that the first few boots of XP are extremely quick then after the third or fourth boot it slows down noticeably.
Ooook.. Whoever keeps posting under thomas’ name: Stop it.
It’s not funny anymore, ok? And besides.. It’s not really that mature either. Doesn’t exactly make US look better than the Freetards in terms of maturity!
Seriously guys, it’s getting sort of old.
Linux sucks. You just wish you could be as 1337 as me. I can write long PHP codes.
[/sarcasm] haha lol.
You fail at the sarcasm tag. You closed it without even opening it.
You only wish you were as 1337 as me and my OpenSolaris Linux!