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	<title>Comments on: Amusing Fact (Plus Gimp still sucks)</title>
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	<link>http://piestar.net/2010/01/07/amusing-fact-plus-gimp-still-sucks/</link>
	<description>A pragmatic look at the state of FOSS</description>
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		<title>By: Conzo</title>
		<link>http://piestar.net/2010/01/07/amusing-fact-plus-gimp-still-sucks/#comment-8691</link>
		<dc:creator>Conzo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Aug 2010 20:28:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://piestar.net/?p=339#comment-8691</guid>
		<description>&quot;I. What’s with the fixation on supercomputers?&quot;

That is probably because he has a very tiny penis. Iirc it was Freud who wrote on the topic of these kinds of inferiority complexes and how diseased minds deal with them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I. What’s with the fixation on supercomputers?&#8221;</p>
<p>That is probably because he has a very tiny penis. Iirc it was Freud who wrote on the topic of these kinds of inferiority complexes and how diseased minds deal with them.</p>
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		<title>By: g33ky1</title>
		<link>http://piestar.net/2010/01/07/amusing-fact-plus-gimp-still-sucks/#comment-5405</link>
		<dc:creator>g33ky1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 01:51:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://piestar.net/?p=339#comment-5405</guid>
		<description>a free piece of shit is still a piece of shit .... Gimp has always been and most likely because of it&#039;s developers attitudes will always be, a giant frustrating time wasting piece of crap ... their only argument is well its free if you don&#039;t like it go use something else .... i&#039;d love to go use something else unfortunately every photo editing program iv tried for linux sucks as well ..... every photo program iv used in my life allows you to trace a line around an object copy it and paste it somewhere else .... not in linux , not in one of these programs that are better because they are free ... im stuck forever dual booting windows just to use something as simple as paint.net which is free by the way and if you send its developers some constructive input on their program they will listen to what you have to say and may actually use your input to better their product , what they dont do is tell you that if you dont like it go fucking use something else ... the gimp team should go choke on a dick</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>a free piece of shit is still a piece of shit &#8230;. Gimp has always been and most likely because of it&#8217;s developers attitudes will always be, a giant frustrating time wasting piece of crap &#8230; their only argument is well its free if you don&#8217;t like it go use something else &#8230;. i&#8217;d love to go use something else unfortunately every photo editing program iv tried for linux sucks as well &#8230;.. every photo program iv used in my life allows you to trace a line around an object copy it and paste it somewhere else &#8230;. not in linux , not in one of these programs that are better because they are free &#8230; im stuck forever dual booting windows just to use something as simple as paint.net which is free by the way and if you send its developers some constructive input on their program they will listen to what you have to say and may actually use your input to better their product , what they dont do is tell you that if you dont like it go fucking use something else &#8230; the gimp team should go choke on a dick</p>
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		<title>By: Kommenter</title>
		<link>http://piestar.net/2010/01/07/amusing-fact-plus-gimp-still-sucks/#comment-5307</link>
		<dc:creator>Kommenter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 14:26:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://piestar.net/?p=339#comment-5307</guid>
		<description>@Appleton
Hehehehe don&#039;t get me wrong i wasn&#039;t defending linux on supercomputers, just repeated the reasons i&#039;ve been told it was used (and they make some sense)
And i&#039;m a microkernel fan btw XD.

Was not aware FreeBSD wasn&#039;t good for superclusters, just assumed it was does do to the higher scalability, learn something new everyday :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Appleton<br />
Hehehehe don&#8217;t get me wrong i wasn&#8217;t defending linux on supercomputers, just repeated the reasons i&#8217;ve been told it was used (and they make some sense)<br />
And i&#8217;m a microkernel fan btw XD.</p>
<p>Was not aware FreeBSD wasn&#8217;t good for superclusters, just assumed it was does do to the higher scalability, learn something new everyday <img src='http://piestar.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Declination</title>
		<link>http://piestar.net/2010/01/07/amusing-fact-plus-gimp-still-sucks/#comment-5298</link>
		<dc:creator>Declination</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 05:25:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://piestar.net/?p=339#comment-5298</guid>
		<description>&quot;Windows and Mac aren’t made for supercomputers, so it makes no sense to even be comparing them in this area.&quot;

Not exactly HPC, but Mac&#039;s do have an interesting grid computing system built in. Having used it, XGrid is pretty awesome. If I recall for a while UVA had the most FLOPs because they had something like 2,000 Macs in a cluster.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Windows and Mac aren’t made for supercomputers, so it makes no sense to even be comparing them in this area.&#8221;</p>
<p>Not exactly HPC, but Mac&#8217;s do have an interesting grid computing system built in. Having used it, XGrid is pretty awesome. If I recall for a while UVA had the most FLOPs because they had something like 2,000 Macs in a cluster.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Appleton</title>
		<link>http://piestar.net/2010/01/07/amusing-fact-plus-gimp-still-sucks/#comment-5296</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Appleton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 01:51:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://piestar.net/?p=339#comment-5296</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;3. It’s free, saves money when run on clusters.&lt;/b&gt;

Only relative to an identical cluster running a non-free OS.
Take a look at, say China&#039;s Earth Sim 2. 1024 cores for 130 Teraflops at ~100 GFLOPs per core, vs Xeons and their 18 GFLOPs per core, given that AFAIK Linux doesn&#039;t run on NEC&#039;s custom vector processors that power ES2, a Xeon would have to cost  1/5th that of an EC for a free OS to impact the upfront cost of hardware, and that excludes the cost on your power bill of having 5 times as many cores, and that&#039;s further excluding other hardware costs, fewer processors equals fewer nodes equals less space in your data centre, and less storage and memory (you are after all, equipping your nodes equally), and you&#039;re even getting a much more efficient cluster out of it (at 95% effic, ES2 is the most efficient cluster in the top 500). 

Then there&#039;s the OpenSolaris approach, the SparcxVIIs powering JAXA cost considerably less than NEC&#039;s Vector CPUS (since they aren&#039;t custom hardware), and output about ~45GFLOPs per CPU, vs ~18 more Xeons, 2.5 quad-xeons to one quad-SVII, and again, you&#039;re looking at better power efficiency overall, fewer CPUS, fewer nodes, and a free OS, and at 91% effic, iot&#039;s the second most efficient in the top 500 by a considerable margin (iirc IDRIS is next at ~80% on 4 times more cores for comparable overall output), and you&#039;re looking at between 40% and 70% effic for the rest). And that&#039;s only going to get better once Fujitsu finally unveils their VII/fx line which is supposed to pump out 120 GFLOPs.

So it depends on how you look at it, if you&#039;ve got a cluster with 300,000 Xeon cores, Linux will probably save you some money, but if you&#039;re looking at building a cluster to achieve a given level of output, while minimizing cost, you&#039;re generally better off going less, more powerful hardware*, which is less than fully supported by Linux.

* There are caveats to this approach, however - you can&#039;t expect IBM for example, to use NEC or Sun hardware in their BlueGene/RoadRunner/etc cluster systems - It ends up costing them less to go with their own Power/PPC/Cell hardware, same applies to any other HPC vendor who manufactures their own hardware.

&lt;b&gt;2. It’s a fully monolith kernel, so when properly configured it’s as fast as possible.&lt;/b&gt;

That&#039;s faulty logic at best, man, Monokernels aren&#039;t inherently faster than Microkernels (that is to say a poorly designed monokernel is not inherently faster than a well-design Microkernel - look at any virtualization solution using a hypervisor that claims ~98% bare-metal performance - the hypervisor is little more than a glorified microkernel). Besides, individual node performance is capped by interconnect performance - the most streamlined kernel in the known universe won&#039;t show you any performance gains when paired with a shitty interconnect, and even beyond that, there&#039;s efficiency to take into account, Linux has yet to show that it can operate as efficiently in this role as Super-UX or Solaris.

&lt;b&gt;4. Windows and Mac aren’t made for supercomputers, so it makes no sense to even be comparing them in this area.&lt;/b&gt;

Granted. Though MagicCube (powered by WinHPC) shows some promise. Cost ultimately works against it here, though.

&lt;b&gt;5. People who work with super computers are highly trained and payed individuals, they can get the damn thing to work.&lt;/b&gt;

Granted. not necessarily related, Though I find it funny that FORTRAN is still the most dominantly used functional language for HPC. If nothing else, I&#039;d say that GCC having a FORTRAN compiler by default is an advantage here.

&lt;b&gt;6. This does not in any way shape or form make linux remotely good on the desktop, in fact, it proves the opposite.&lt;/b&gt;

Of course.

&lt;b&gt;7. All of this could be achieved with FreeBSD, but people are trained to be linux sysadmins unfortunately.&lt;/b&gt;

Eeeh. Yes and no. FreeBSD isn&#039;t designed with HPC in mind, though it scales higher than Linux, it just isn&#039;t fit for superclusters, you&#039;d have to work with much more, smaller nodes because the SMP isn&#039;t all that great past 16 cores (to the freetards, that&#039;s 16 cores per node, not per cluster) which becomes rather inefficient when you&#039;re in the tens of thousands in terms of core count, not to mentions ramps up the cost of hardware regarding storage and memory per node, as well as power consumption, especially given that like Linux, it has less than full support (to put it nicely) for beefier, more efficient more cost-effective hardware, so you&#039;re stuck with commodity hardware.

That being said, Linux is popular in HPC because commodity intel hardware is popular in HPC.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>3. It’s free, saves money when run on clusters.</b></p>
<p>Only relative to an identical cluster running a non-free OS.<br />
Take a look at, say China&#8217;s Earth Sim 2. 1024 cores for 130 Teraflops at ~100 GFLOPs per core, vs Xeons and their 18 GFLOPs per core, given that AFAIK Linux doesn&#8217;t run on NEC&#8217;s custom vector processors that power ES2, a Xeon would have to cost  1/5th that of an EC for a free OS to impact the upfront cost of hardware, and that excludes the cost on your power bill of having 5 times as many cores, and that&#8217;s further excluding other hardware costs, fewer processors equals fewer nodes equals less space in your data centre, and less storage and memory (you are after all, equipping your nodes equally), and you&#8217;re even getting a much more efficient cluster out of it (at 95% effic, ES2 is the most efficient cluster in the top 500). </p>
<p>Then there&#8217;s the OpenSolaris approach, the SparcxVIIs powering JAXA cost considerably less than NEC&#8217;s Vector CPUS (since they aren&#8217;t custom hardware), and output about ~45GFLOPs per CPU, vs ~18 more Xeons, 2.5 quad-xeons to one quad-SVII, and again, you&#8217;re looking at better power efficiency overall, fewer CPUS, fewer nodes, and a free OS, and at 91% effic, iot&#8217;s the second most efficient in the top 500 by a considerable margin (iirc IDRIS is next at ~80% on 4 times more cores for comparable overall output), and you&#8217;re looking at between 40% and 70% effic for the rest). And that&#8217;s only going to get better once Fujitsu finally unveils their VII/fx line which is supposed to pump out 120 GFLOPs.</p>
<p>So it depends on how you look at it, if you&#8217;ve got a cluster with 300,000 Xeon cores, Linux will probably save you some money, but if you&#8217;re looking at building a cluster to achieve a given level of output, while minimizing cost, you&#8217;re generally better off going less, more powerful hardware*, which is less than fully supported by Linux.</p>
<p>* There are caveats to this approach, however &#8211; you can&#8217;t expect IBM for example, to use NEC or Sun hardware in their BlueGene/RoadRunner/etc cluster systems &#8211; It ends up costing them less to go with their own Power/PPC/Cell hardware, same applies to any other HPC vendor who manufactures their own hardware.</p>
<p><b>2. It’s a fully monolith kernel, so when properly configured it’s as fast as possible.</b></p>
<p>That&#8217;s faulty logic at best, man, Monokernels aren&#8217;t inherently faster than Microkernels (that is to say a poorly designed monokernel is not inherently faster than a well-design Microkernel &#8211; look at any virtualization solution using a hypervisor that claims ~98% bare-metal performance &#8211; the hypervisor is little more than a glorified microkernel). Besides, individual node performance is capped by interconnect performance &#8211; the most streamlined kernel in the known universe won&#8217;t show you any performance gains when paired with a shitty interconnect, and even beyond that, there&#8217;s efficiency to take into account, Linux has yet to show that it can operate as efficiently in this role as Super-UX or Solaris.</p>
<p><b>4. Windows and Mac aren’t made for supercomputers, so it makes no sense to even be comparing them in this area.</b></p>
<p>Granted. Though MagicCube (powered by WinHPC) shows some promise. Cost ultimately works against it here, though.</p>
<p><b>5. People who work with super computers are highly trained and payed individuals, they can get the damn thing to work.</b></p>
<p>Granted. not necessarily related, Though I find it funny that FORTRAN is still the most dominantly used functional language for HPC. If nothing else, I&#8217;d say that GCC having a FORTRAN compiler by default is an advantage here.</p>
<p><b>6. This does not in any way shape or form make linux remotely good on the desktop, in fact, it proves the opposite.</b></p>
<p>Of course.</p>
<p><b>7. All of this could be achieved with FreeBSD, but people are trained to be linux sysadmins unfortunately.</b></p>
<p>Eeeh. Yes and no. FreeBSD isn&#8217;t designed with HPC in mind, though it scales higher than Linux, it just isn&#8217;t fit for superclusters, you&#8217;d have to work with much more, smaller nodes because the SMP isn&#8217;t all that great past 16 cores (to the freetards, that&#8217;s 16 cores per node, not per cluster) which becomes rather inefficient when you&#8217;re in the tens of thousands in terms of core count, not to mentions ramps up the cost of hardware regarding storage and memory per node, as well as power consumption, especially given that like Linux, it has less than full support (to put it nicely) for beefier, more efficient more cost-effective hardware, so you&#8217;re stuck with commodity hardware.</p>
<p>That being said, Linux is popular in HPC because commodity intel hardware is popular in HPC.</p>
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		<title>By: Kerberos</title>
		<link>http://piestar.net/2010/01/07/amusing-fact-plus-gimp-still-sucks/#comment-5295</link>
		<dc:creator>Kerberos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 01:40:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://piestar.net/?p=339#comment-5295</guid>
		<description>Whats especially amusing is his solution to the problem of the &#039;Microsoft Tax&#039; is, you guessed it, a tax.  So rather than the optional &#039;Microsoft Tax&#039; there would be a *mandatory* &#039;Linux Tax&#039;.  Plus it&#039;ll be created by the government so you know it&#039;ll be both quality and cost effective! :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whats especially amusing is his solution to the problem of the &#8216;Microsoft Tax&#8217; is, you guessed it, a tax.  So rather than the optional &#8216;Microsoft Tax&#8217; there would be a *mandatory* &#8216;Linux Tax&#8217;.  Plus it&#8217;ll be created by the government so you know it&#8217;ll be both quality and cost effective! <img src='http://piestar.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Adam King</title>
		<link>http://piestar.net/2010/01/07/amusing-fact-plus-gimp-still-sucks/#comment-5294</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam King</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 01:05:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://piestar.net/?p=339#comment-5294</guid>
		<description>I will never install Windows.
I will never pay the Microsoft tax.
VIVa LA FREEDOM!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will never install Windows.<br />
I will never pay the Microsoft tax.<br />
VIVa LA FREEDOM!</p>
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		<title>By: Oro</title>
		<link>http://piestar.net/2010/01/07/amusing-fact-plus-gimp-still-sucks/#comment-5293</link>
		<dc:creator>Oro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 01:02:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://piestar.net/?p=339#comment-5293</guid>
		<description>Honestly, who cares anyway, Queefer failed on LH and so he does here... let him have fun with his supercomputer cluster in his basement, once his mom starts throwing out all the hardware from the 80s, he will be installing Windows again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Honestly, who cares anyway, Queefer failed on LH and so he does here&#8230; let him have fun with his supercomputer cluster in his basement, once his mom starts throwing out all the hardware from the 80s, he will be installing Windows again.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas B.</title>
		<link>http://piestar.net/2010/01/07/amusing-fact-plus-gimp-still-sucks/#comment-5291</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 00:50:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://piestar.net/?p=339#comment-5291</guid>
		<description>Unlike Adam, see, I actually don&#039;t mind proprietary software. When you have a great program, take Photoshop for example, why the hell would you want to make it free?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unlike Adam, see, I actually don&#8217;t mind proprietary software. When you have a great program, take Photoshop for example, why the hell would you want to make it free?</p>
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		<title>By: Kerberos</title>
		<link>http://piestar.net/2010/01/07/amusing-fact-plus-gimp-still-sucks/#comment-5290</link>
		<dc:creator>Kerberos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 23:36:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://piestar.net/?p=339#comment-5290</guid>
		<description>Adam: software comes on cd. You can download ebooks direct to your pc, no paper required - its just a stream of bits. Should I not have the freedom to modify and distribute it?

My server runs Linux. My phone runs Linux. My desktop does not. I use whatever is best for the job rather than base my decisions on bizarre ideologies.  You are like a looney vegan that claims that they somehow have nicer food despite limiting themselves to a subset of it. 

Sure, make your choice based on your warped idea of freedom, but stop pretending that isn&#039;t the reason. Plus answer the question - do you believe that being able to edit and redistribute ebooks is q fundamental right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adam: software comes on cd. You can download ebooks direct to your pc, no paper required &#8211; its just a stream of bits. Should I not have the freedom to modify and distribute it?</p>
<p>My server runs Linux. My phone runs Linux. My desktop does not. I use whatever is best for the job rather than base my decisions on bizarre ideologies.  You are like a looney vegan that claims that they somehow have nicer food despite limiting themselves to a subset of it. </p>
<p>Sure, make your choice based on your warped idea of freedom, but stop pretending that isn&#8217;t the reason. Plus answer the question &#8211; do you believe that being able to edit and redistribute ebooks is q fundamental right?</p>
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