Piestar

Actually, I’ve started to be really thankful to the Linux community and help them wherever I can, because they’re the only reason that prevent GNU/Linux to become mainstream and destroy the software market. They’re the ones scaring the normal people away and sticking to early software designs from the late 60s.

Working in support as a former professional software developer? … I think that’d be the worst day of my life. Thank you Linux community.

I love how the freetards in the comments oversimply the process of installing third party software in Linux (because apt-get is universal, and you can ignore the steps of figuring out which package you want, locating it, and istalling what may or may not be the latest version, and what may or may not upgrade and (break) half your system) all the while ignoring that the point of the article was about installing third party packages from outside the outdated repositories.

Some will catch that and try to argue that the author is stupid for wanting to install from outside of the repositories, making up some nonsense about how thje repositories exist for the sake of stability anf blah blah blah, but not as little more than a band-aid fix for a problems inherent to an archaic model that died with the 80s and 90s: using (communal) shared librararies for everything, rather than outright eliminating the problem like everyone else did (Apple has static app bundles, and Windows installs to static app directories)*****

****, this has happened before, the freetards will barge in feeling all smart and bantering about DLLs being shared libraries, ignoring entirely that in this context “shared” means “can be shared if so desired, but are rarely actually shared between applications (outside of what is provided by the base system) in practice” because as we’d come to discover long ago, they’re generally self-important dipshits who overstate their understanding of even the most basic concepts.

They’ll also try to present the application install process of Windows as being drastically more convoluted than it really is: double-click on the fucking EXE or MSI. OH EMM GEEE IT’S SO FUCKING HARD!

and i forgot

YouDontNeedTheLastVersion™

they imply that by double clicking the thing, you might get your computer hacked, your information stolen, malware installed, or whatever else you can think of…talk about scare tactics…

The idea is that a) the user knows better than to warez their software,and b) download from places they trust. Most of that is mitigated.

Beyond that, proactive and on-access malware detection is widespread and even the free offerings have it (and bost detection rates comparable to Nod32 and Kaspersky, in the case of Avast!), so that mitigates that problem too.

And then there’s the firewall that’s blocking any unauthorized access in or out.

Of course mention any of that, and you’ll get all kinds of bollocks about how all of this is unecessary on Linux, while in any other discussion they’ll be quick to point out how much of a complete moron for not running from behind a firewall, or for opening various attachments and warez.

Freetards are many things (few of them good), consistent isn’t one of them.

In windows install process not handled by central repository so can’t tell what already installed. Results in duplicate of libraries. Can’t lock files so multiple instal processes overwrite system libraries resulting in hosed. Learn how install before complain. Shared library model making one copy of object load in memory. Windows model load multiple object in memory and force page thrash to search. Karkhalash pure ms idiot and waste memory.

Not saying linux shared libraries perfect. Has improved great since everyone now focused on fiting linux into microcontroler. Requires less bloat in memory. For example c library. Only need one copy for running functions in memory. Windows use one copy for program that need c functions. Is why linux system fit on microcontroler and windows not. Linux only have one installer package program locks files it needs where windows not.

oh, and by many they mean 5!

Unrelated, but: Welcome back Karkhalash! – always a pleasure to have you with us.

Always a pleasure to be here <3 Though, I've been around posting anonymously and using various 80's sitcom actors as pseudonyms just to test the freetards (especially Ohioham) on their mission to "find me out" based on my writing style. I'm sad that they hadn't figured it out yet, though not surprised, heh.

In windows install process not handled by central repository so can’t tell what already installed.

Try installing a package that’s already installed, the installer will tell you if the default install location already exists. Many higher grade packages (Adobe stuff, for example) will detect a previous install and load up the repair/remove portion of the install wizard.

And there’s add/remove as well.

Funny how this can be construed as the reverse of the typical “Windows and OSX are for stupid people” argument, suggesting that it is, in fact Linux that is build for morons because they can’t keep track of what they have and have no installed.

Results in duplicate of libraries.

Communal Libraries are installed to specific common directories, while static libraries are installed to the installation directory, installing something that is already present on the system will prompt you to overwrite the old libraries.

Unless you’re talking about duplication of static libraries amongst different programs, each having their own version of it (you’re not, though, because you’re a walking septic tank), either way, such is generally considered acceptable, the tradeoff between dependencies and memory/disk space is considered acceptable. This isn’t the 90s. Storage and memory is cheap, and the system is greatly simplified as a result.

Can’t lock files so multiple instal processes overwrite system libraries resulting in hosed

First, nobody runs parallel installs (the MSI installer will fire a popup that tells you there is another install going on, and to either wait, or terminate the older one).

Second, because the libraries not part of the base system aren’t communal between applications, they’re installed to separate application directories, there’s no overlap, and because this isn’t the 90s, most communal libraries installed to common folders by certain vendors don’t overlap with others, neither in \system32\ nor in \common files\.

Third, Windows locks files that are in use, so that they cannot be overwritten nor deleted while in use, that’s why you have to reboot after certain installs.

Fourth, as usual, you’re full of it, on many levels.

Shared library model making one copy of object load in memory

The shared library model is archaic and outdated. It made a lot of sense back in the 80s and 90s when disk space and memory were at a premium, the tradeoff between space and simplicity was then acceptable, now that storage and memory are available in quantities bordering on the absurd for dirt cheap, the reverse tradeoff is acceptable.

You don’t need dependency tracking when there are no dependencies to track. This problem is further rendered moot by .NET, where the framework is the only dependency. Simplicity is good, and one should never strive for complexity for the sake of complexity.

Karkhalash pure ms idiot and waste memory.

I was waiting for that, normally you start off with one of those. Nevermind that you, as usual, haven’t actually addressed any of the points I’d presented, nor that many of the points you tried to make at no point intersect with reality, there’s the matter of me being a ‘pure ms idiot’ while I’d expressly made it a point to mention that Apple does it this way, too.

As I’ve said many times, OhioHam, yes, I use Windows, and yes, I obviously have a much greater understanding of it than you do, but I also use Unix, Linux (and have shown on numerous occasions that I, FreeBSD and OSX. I could understand “Crypto-MacFag” or “Crypto-Sun fanboy”, but painting me as an MS fanboy is just retarded.

Windows use one copy for program that need c functions.

That’s where you’re not understanding. Windows does use communal libraries, but not all of them are communal. The C runtimes are communal, and anything provided by the base system is also communal.

Is why linux system fit on microcontroler and windows not.

Linux doesn’t fit on microcontrollers. Last time you tried to argue this, you linked to the z80/Linux project which saw all of one commit 6 years ago before being abandoned.

WinCE is, however lean enough to fit on embedded devices (though I’m not sure about Microcontrollers, though I’m fairly certain that its microkernel fits), we’re of course talking about desktop systems, and you’re of course moving the goalposts, and failing at non-sequiturs, as per usual.

Linux only have one installer package program locks files it needs where windows not.

Which once again is why Windows cannot overwrite or replace files that are in use, right?

Linux fits on microcontrolers because… well, it’s made for microcontrolers?

It doesn’t… and it isn’t. He’s making that up. QNX and VxWorks rule the embedded market largely because their microkernels fit on microcontrollers. Linux doesn’t even run on 8-bit architectures, so even if they do manage to slim it down, a) it doesn’t support microcontroller architectures, b) the monokernel will never be as sleek as the QNX and VxWorks microkernels, and c) will never be as flexible either.

if i had the source for windows i could make it run on a microcontroler too, and it would be crap, because windows is made for the desktop.

Unless the Windows you’re talking about happens to be Windows CE, which is designed and built from the ground up not only to do precisely that, but to do it well.

NT is designed to be flexible, it’s a hybrid kernel, after all, modeled after the legendary VMS, and designed by David Cutler and the geniuses over at DEC, after all. You’re right, of course, that standard, NT-based Windows isn’t designed for embedded devices.

NT is designed to be flexible, it’s a hybrid kernel, after all, modeled after the legendary VMS, and designed by David Cutler and the geniuses over at DEC, after all.

But once you start working for Microsoft you are no longer a genius.

I’m sorry Oiaohm but i just can’t understand you, no one installs multiple programs at the same time, there’s no need for locking any files what so ever, every install program registers with add/remove programs anyway so i just don’t understand what you’re complaining about.
Your complaining about something which isn’t a problem to begin with (and no, this is not the same as ThatIsAFeature™, it really is not a problem)

I’m sad that they hadn’t figured it out yet, though not surprised, heh.

I knew it with you. Any talk about SGI or actual Top500 stuff beyond “Linux rulz!!!” is a dead giveaway.

Books and tutorials for coding… can’t really help you, don’t know any good ones.
I started to learn “programming” by using GameMaker, and then trying to port the game I made to C++, reading every tutorial I could find on the web.

It’s actually quite easy, if you can understand the following you can program:

int soma (int x, int y) {
return x + y;
}

//The operating system starts your program here
main () {
int num1 = 5;
int num2 = 15;
writeline(“5 + 15 = ” + soma(num1, num2));
}

NOTE: Not really C, the code is simplified.

@Tux Sux
_/_\_ [_(>'.')>_]
{o.O} |
/)__)>—-+
-”—”-
I can tell you’re not a big fan of C, me neither

Not thinking for desktop. Desktop always have non technical user who not “computer expert” like you and who install multiple program at once. Linux force installer into series because using one package manager but windows not. Simple so try to understand.

But issue is linux package manggement already have file locks way ahead of windows. Windows take years for implement MSI and have file locks during install, not allow multiple installs at once. When using say nullsoft or other setup not handled through MSI so not have file locks.

say lock useless only keep honest person out this Window approach need no door because window have no lock person enter from window like ninja. linux have lock keep honest person out only liar come in.

mutliple install no happen on windows because no lock and no door format raise barrier to entry, must be climb to get in window. Linux superior due to multiple lock so multiple door so multiple entry so multiple install. only ostrich with head in sand not see this because sand block vision key to package manager is keep sand away from eyes with, so locks equal close door behind and lock so sand not get in, sand come in from windows so block vision so linux superior due to sand locking door.

Window not make reboot because file lock, window reboot because sand from unlocked window get in gears and slow machine.

I knew it with you. Any talk about SGI or actual Top500 stuff beyond “Linux rulz!!!” is a dead giveaway.

I expected the regulars to catch on in short order, haters have shown themselves to be leaps and bounds more astute than the freetard brigade. My experiment was to prove my theory that the freetard brigade, in spite of all their vitriol and threats, wouldn’t be able to recognise the exact same writing unless it was signed Kharkhalash.

By the way, does Oiaohm have a Google Alert for “Karkhalash” or something? He can be gone for weeks at a time but the word “Karkhalash” comes up, even referenced by someone else, and he’s back in a New York minute.

It’s simultaneously flattering, and very, very creepy – Amusing, too. I’ve noticed that I can post the exact same comment under different pseudonyms and he’ll respond to the one signed Kharkhalash much, much more rabidly, while offering up an entirely different response to the same comment posted anonymously.

Expecting OhioHam in 3… 2… 1…

Kerberos, Yay, I’m in good company, you’ve got Queefer, TM Dude has Snickerella, and I’ve got Oh/io Ham, ^_^.

Not only a security risk, I’ve yet to see a third party su^H^Hrepository that stays updated for any length of time – their maintainers do, after all, have to maintain their repo every n months so it still works with the main release, which also leads to the issue of (further) compromised system stability, in the event that the dependencies for packages in the third party repo don’t match the mainline repos. (anyone else remember the headache that was getting stuff from rpmfind.net to work, and the headaches ot caused come upgrade-time, back in the day?

It’s just so very messy no matter how you slice it, when it comes to using anything from outside the mainline su^H^Hrepository.

Thomas B sucks African Gorilla cock.

@Thomas B.
Software Center is a good idea, Synaptic unlike what most freetards think isn’t user friendly (it is to me since I know what I’m doing, but my “grandma” like freetards usualy say isn’t going to understand the 100 packages that show up when she searches for whatever, if she even knows what to search for).

I’m actuals surprised the ubuntu devs are doing something, instead of jacking off all day to mark shuttleworth’s money.

Still, unless the software center allows developers to submit their own applications, and there is a strong effort to convince them to do so, it’ll just be the same crap with a prettier face.

The repository is the only way of doing things. If you’re new to Linux, and you want a program that isn’t in the repository, you’re immediately left to fend for your self in a shark tank. As I’ve said on my blog, some standards need to be organized for a cross-distro package type, that every distro can read.

it should write to a normal programs folder

well one last try:
@Thomas B
It appears freedesktop is working on a standard package format, even if it’s only in the idea stage…

“it should write to a normal programs folder”
which is supposedly what opt is for

I’m not sure I see much of a point in software enter, as Tommy describes it. So it lets you rate shit, who cares, another frontend (and that’s all SC, Synaptic and Gdebi are; frontends to APT, which itself is a frontend to DPKG) isn’t going to fix the problem that is at the core of the su^H^Hrepository system, it still leaves you no clean way to install or manage packages outside of the respository, and does nothing to mitigate the security and stability issues potentially presented by arbitrarily adding external su^H^Hrepositories.

Dependency tracking is a fun feature, but isn’t the game changer the freetard brigadfe makes it up to be, as mentioned above, it’s a bandaid fix to abstract the shortcomings inherent to the archaic throwback to the ’70s that is the (communal) shared library model, without actually addressing any of said shortcomings.

The very fact that such convoluted management systems are required to work with the underlying system is anything even vaguely resembling a sane manner are requisite to begin with should be a sign that the underlying system is showing its age.

Writing a new interactive frontend to a frontend only abstracts the problem, and attemps to keep users distracted (omg omg I am can rate things lol) from the fact that ultimastely, absolutely nothing has been changed, they’re still stuck rowing up shit creek without a paddle if they want to use anythinmg outside the repo, but hey, it’s easier than actually putting in the work requisite to overhaul the underlying system.

The solutions are simple – accept that memory and storage are in abundance and this is no longer the 70s, so duplicating libraries for simplicity is an acceptible tradeoff and either switch to an app bundle system as Apple did for OSX, or install to isolated directories, as Microsoft does (in either approach, anything communal in nature is provided by the base system).

Then there’s the LSB approach of consolidating around a standardized set of base libraries, which at the very least, is the first step toward either of the above solutions, but it also is the first step toward a unified package management framework (and potentially, if combined with a standardized based system eliminates a lot of the effort wasted on every distribution packaging their own version of the exact same software).

Of course, all of that is rendered moot given the compulsion to build against the latest development branches of any given library rather than the stable releases, which ultimately ends up either entirely defeating the point of a standardized base system, or, more ideally, provokes a change in development practices to the more sane model applied in the proprietary world: target the lowest common denominator for the sake of compatibility, and package static libraries for everything else. A little more work up front saved countless manhours of re-packaging later.

Standard base system, with a standard package format and standard management framework results in most of these problems being, for the most part, mitigated, if not for the most part, eliminated, add in the ability to run concurrent subsystems (like NT) or self-contained environments (like BSD or Solaris) and you’ve got backward compatibility to any previous LSB releasae as well. and all of a sudden you’ve at least slowed down the bi-annual forced death march. – a new frontend to a frontend to the same nonstandard, distro-specific packaging system does nothing to address any of these problems (so no, I don’t ‘admit’ that SC is going along fine, and b) if I’m to be a fanboy of anything, I should hope that it’s been made obvious enough that would be Sun (and their package management sucks, too) , not Windows).

Of course all of this requires cooperation, kinda funny isn’t it, that the freetard brigade talks up storm about the spirit of open source being cooperation, and that oss encourages cooperation, but when push comes to shove, the greatest exemplification of oss cooperation, and that being LSB, is met with as much resistance as it is.

Well, Kerberos, I think everybody here would rather solve a captcha than losing a 4,000 characters comment. Worse: it silently fails, nothing happens, and it looks like putting a single link in a comment is enough to have it marked as spam.

And as you explain very well in this post, the customers (here, the commenters) are always right.
So please, put a captcha in here, and remove this broken spam detector.

Not understand design for pulseaudio. To replacing alsa subsystem by creating stable base from to fix alsa without modify alsa and create program incompatibility. Yes it crash constant but not because of bad pulseaudio design because of alsa bugs. Is only now being fixed because have stable programming base.

Not if want programs thhat use also to function while fixing. Requires redesign of alsa api which would break programs. Instead use pulseaudio to act as stable layer on top.

“Not if want programs thhat use also to function while fixing. Requires redesign of alsa api which would break programs. Instead use pulseaudio to act as stable layer on top.”

Or, alsa could just emulate old-alsa just like pulseaudio emulates alsa. Oh the humanity! That would make sense!

Not if want new features like network streaming. Pulse audio not perfect but better than modifying alsa. Accept and stop pretend that pulse audio is useless.

“Not if want new features like network streaming.”
A sound system doing network streaming…
Thank you for proving my point jackass

“Can anyone actually provide a use-case where network streaming of audio would actually be required? I can’t for the life of me even imagine a situation where you’d ever even want to do this.”

That’s because there isn’t one.

I always wondered why this is supposed to be a good thing (unrelated to pulseaudio):

cat richardstallman.png > /dev/audio

Sure it’s funny(and horrible) but… really what’s the point?

The whole “everything is a file” made a lot of sense until IOCTL. Then everything blew up.

@Adam King
“You know your points have all been successfully refuted right? I have personally seen to that”
Seems to me you need to lay off the drugs, imagining things that never happened.
The only thing I need to do to win any argument against any freetard is write “boycott novel”, and I haven’t even done that, because there’s no need! You haven’t refuted shit, you also keep assuming we love microsoft. The usual fallacy, we don’t like linux therefore we love microsoft.

If you bother to read, you will see that I have successfully shown M$ to be an illegal monopoly. More importantly, I have shown you all the different groups that use linux in the greatest supercomputers in the world. Linux has standards compliant browsing. M$ does not. Linux has USB3 support. M$ does not. Linux has arm. M$ does not. Linux has the most impressive security track record of any operating system. M$ has the worst. M$ has to resort to illegal tactics to get people to use their operating system.

Your precious firefox is faster relies on using a proprietary compiler. Instead, the GCC community works to add those speedups to GCC so it can compile firefox just as well. See the difference between the two camps?

“If you bother to read, you will see that I have successfully shown M$ to be an illegal monopoly.”

No you haven’t, and no, they’re not. No court has found Microsoft to be an illegal monopoly – ever.

“More importantly, I have shown you all the different groups that use linux in the greatest supercomputers in the world.”

Please STOP bringing up supercomputers. Who gives a flying fuck about supercomputers, apart from the people using them?? Until I have one under my desk, top500.org is a complete irrelevancy to me. The Linux angle is irrelevant too; it’s not like Roadrunner or Jaguar run Ubuntu, for fuck’s sake.

“Linux has standards compliant browsing. M$ does not.”

Chrome, Safari and Firefox are all available on Windows. Firefox runs better in WINE than in native Linux.

IE8 passes ACID2. Or do standards tests only matter when Windows fails them?

“Linux has USB3 support. M$ does not.”

You do know Microsoft are one of USB’s creators, don’t you? You really think they won’t support USB3? USB3 support will go into Windows as it’s needed. If Intel’s Light Peak takes off, USB3 may be stillborn, anyway.

“Linux has arm. M$ does not.”

Windows CE/Mobile does. How many desktop devices contain ARM processors?

“Linux has the most impressive security track record of any operating system.”

The BSDs fuck Linux’s women and drink Linux’s beer when it comes to security. To claim Linux has the best security record of any OS is absolutely fucking laughable.

“M$ has the worst.”

Secunia would beg to differ. The Linux 2.6 kernel alone has more vulnerabilities than whole MS operating systems. Go and look for yourself.

As an aside, it’s amazing how Secunia are liars and paid shills when Linux looks bad, but they’re holy fucking writ when Microsoft have vulnerabilities.

“M$ has to resort to illegal tactics to get people to use their operating system.”

Oh, please. As Bill Gates said on The Simpsons – “I didn’t get rich by writing checks”

“Your precious firefox is faster relies on using a proprietary compiler.”

So why aren’t all the super-duper go-faster-stripe compiler flags used in GCC? Or have they been, and they’ve still done fucking nothing?

“Instead, the GCC community works to add those speedups to GCC so it can compile firefox just as well. See the difference between the two camps?”

Yes. GCC is crap and produces slow binaries, and no-one will take responsibility for fixing it.

Surely the million programmer army is descending to sort out GCC? It’s obvious that unpaid volunteers know more about CPU design and the accompanying microcode than Intel or AMD, isn’t it?

“But even with all that M$’s influence wains. Just look at Munich.”
You mean the fact that the Munich linux transition has been a total failure?

Also microsoft supports Intel’s “AWESOME” itanium architecture that was supposed to revolutionize computing, and yet nobody uses it.
Why?
Because THE IA-32 ARCHITECTURE has a massive monopoly on the desktop market.
It has nothing to do with microsoft, microsoft could release windows for MIPS/Power PC/SPARC or whatever and everything would remain the same.

“A total failure? Hatetards must be blind now. M$ office is no longer used on Munich city computers.”

OK, near-total failure, then. They’ve managed to convert slightly less than 20% in six years. Hardly a glowing endorsement.

“They use open office instead.”

Over 80% of Munich’s computers now run OpenOffice on WINDOWS.

“So far all departments have pilot linux programs that are growing every day.”

At a rate that makes me think the conversions are being done by one person with a DVD walking around the city installing at random.

“Soon the whole city will be using linux.”

Soon? Are you kidding? It’s estimated the rollout will be finished by 2020.

“Not even the power of M$ the illegal monopoly can stand in the way of the German people’s quest for freedom.”

What illegal monopoly?? BTW, don’t try to bring up the discounts MS offered to Munich – you can’t price dump against a competitor that costs nothing.

And the Munich Linux rollout only affects government computers; German home users (who far outnumber government users) are free to carry on using Windows.

“Nobody runs arm because M$ has strongarmed the market into not using it.”

Since when has Microsoft manufactured processors? People don’t use ARM in desktops/laptops because it quite simply is NOT GOOD ENOUGH compared to x86.

Why don’t you try blaming INTEL for this? Or do they get a free pass for open-sourcing a few old drivers??

“Low-power arm netbooks could be a great help to third-world countries”

Clean water, adequate sanitation, vaccines for common illnesses and stopping petty wars that kill off huge swathes of the populations would be better to the third world than a slow netbook. Once they get past those obstacles, they won’t want cheap knock-offs, they will want what the rest of the world uses – WINDOWS.

“but because M$ is only interested in profet ”

What company isn’t interested in profit? Google, IBM and the rest of the “Linux companies” don’t do what they do out of altruism. They do it to make money. Once Linux stops making them money, they’ll drop Linux like it’s a rat that died of rabies.

“Ballmer uses his influence to crush the arm revolution because he knows windows can’t hold a candle to free software on arm.”

What ARM revolution?

It’s a low-power CPU design. It works in mobile phones and small devices. It’s not a general computing CPU, and it’s certainly not a computing panacea.

“Just look at Munich.”

Then point and laugh at Munich. If Munich had stuck with Microsoft, they’d have saved time and money. No retraining costs, and they’d be fucking done by now, not taking 6+ years so far with 11 more years forecast before completion!

@AnonymouZ,

Don’t listen to that nonsense from Kommenter; of course you can learn to program from books and tutorials, that’s what they’re there for! Like anything there are good programming books, and bad ones; good tutorials and bad ones.

I have no idea why that nonsense is espoused everywhere, about not learning anything from books.

@Doug Penhall
I didn’t say you can’t learn anything from books. I said “I” didn’t.
Thats why i couldn’t help him, since i didn’t know any good ones.
Don’t put words in my mouth, thank you.

“Arm processors are 2-3 times faster than an equivalent x86 processor”
No.
“Windows mobile might pretend to run on arm but nobody uses it”
Windows mobile is not for laptops/PCs, but it is widely used you moron.
“It’s just there to allow M$’s shills to deny that Ballmer is personally keeping linux arm netbooks from being sold on mass”
And here i was thinking it was a product that was making them money, who would have thought.
“M$ has already been convicted of being an illegal monopoly”
Or not.
“is it so hard for you to imagine that they would keep millions of people in poverty away from computers just so they could keep all the money?”
Microsoft doesn’t make money from selling x86 processors so yes.
Also Gates has given more to charity than you’ll ever make in your entire pathetic life.

Also microsoft supports Intel’s “AWESOME” itanium architecture that was supposed to revolutionize computing, and yet nobody uses it on the desktop (FTFY).
Why?
Because THE IA-32 ARCHITECTURE has a massive monopoly on the desktop market.

Two indipendantly somewhat true statements don’t necessary correlate with each other in any way.

The reason there are no IA-64-based desktops is because they don’t exist, nor have they ever existed, and this has nothing to do with Intel having cornered the desktop market with IA-32/x86_64.

x86/x86_64 targets the desktop.
IA-64 targets the high end enterprise market (where it’s third behind Sparc and Power respectively), HP’s entire high end enterprise product lineup (Integrity and SuperDome) is exclusively Itanium-based, and their OS products (HP-UX and OpenVMS) only support Itanium* (they still support PA-RISC, Alpha and VAX, but none of the three are still produced), which amounts to ~80% of all Otanium systems sold. (Fujitsu-Siemens, Hitachi, NEC, Groupe Bull and SGI also offer Intanium-based servers, blades and mainframes).

HP and Intel target x86 and IA-64 at completely different markets that don’t compete nor overlap – Itanium is priced an order of magnitude or two out of the desktop market, while it utterly destroys x86 on price/performance on Enterprise scale deployments and workloads.

As for Queefer, come guys, he isn’t even trying.

“As for Queefer, come guys, he isn’t even trying.”

Which is a shame – I’d like to at least get the second page of Google results before I find a source that refutes his bullshit, rather than using “I’m feeling lucky” and scoring every time. That’s when I even bother looking.

He’s worth answering, even if he is just trolling. (Although why anyone would pretend to be so mind-numbingly stupid as he seems to be for enjoyment is beyond my comprehension.) He’s the kind of overly-vocal “advocate” whose warped message is one that the young and impressionable pick up on.

Nipping his bullshit in the bud will hopefully help stop a new crop of poisonous idiots from appearing and flooding every tech site with crap and shouting down valid criticism.

I’m sorry but you’re wrong, itanium was originaly supposed to be the sucessor to x86, on the desktop as well.

I didn’t know that. Learn something new every day ^_^.

Call me an optimist, but I refuse to believe anyone believes what Queefer has to say, I mean, even Tommy Boy caught on eventually!

Linux Linux me so horny.