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	<title>Comments on: Missing The Point of CSS</title>
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	<link>http://piestar.net/2010/03/25/missing-the-point-of-css/</link>
	<description>A pragmatic look at the state of FOSS</description>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://piestar.net/2010/03/25/missing-the-point-of-css/#comment-7497</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 May 2010 18:33:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://piestar.net/?p=408#comment-7497</guid>
		<description>Not only did this post have nothing to do with Linux, but it didn&#039;t even convey the message clearly. Only after reading some comments did I understand WHAT THE FUCK you were getting at. Your example is about the path of a file? Really? How about you describe the way browsers interpret markup/content. Or maybe just don&#039;t waste our time any more with stupid posts like these.

Your blog went the way of LinuxHater&#039;s. Dried up with nothing left to say that hasn&#039;t been said already.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not only did this post have nothing to do with Linux, but it didn&#8217;t even convey the message clearly. Only after reading some comments did I understand WHAT THE FUCK you were getting at. Your example is about the path of a file? Really? How about you describe the way browsers interpret markup/content. Or maybe just don&#8217;t waste our time any more with stupid posts like these.</p>
<p>Your blog went the way of LinuxHater&#8217;s. Dried up with nothing left to say that hasn&#8217;t been said already.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Til</title>
		<link>http://piestar.net/2010/03/25/missing-the-point-of-css/#comment-6944</link>
		<dc:creator>Til</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Apr 2010 15:45:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://piestar.net/?p=408#comment-6944</guid>
		<description>You still trying to argue with Oiaoioiohm?

My god, you have infinite patience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You still trying to argue with Oiaoioiohm?</p>
<p>My god, you have infinite patience.</p>
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		<title>By: TM Repository</title>
		<link>http://piestar.net/2010/03/25/missing-the-point-of-css/#comment-6880</link>
		<dc:creator>TM Repository</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Apr 2010 19:19:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://piestar.net/?p=408#comment-6880</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I mentioned spriting way back when, that&#039;s not what he&#039;s talking about.  Spriting works for non-essential images like icons, borders, button states, etc.  However, for images like the company logo, profile pictures on facebook, etc.  Those &lt;i&gt;must&lt;/i&gt; be embedded with img tags otherwise they disappear if the stylesheets aren&#039;t loaded.

His idea is to have all images loaded from the CSS so that if stylesheets don&#039;t load, the page loads more quickly.  Totally ignoring the fact that all browsers, especially mobile ones, have a &quot;don&#039;t load images&quot; option right next to their &quot;don&#039;t load CSS&quot; option.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I mentioned spriting way back when, that&#8217;s not what he&#8217;s talking about.  Spriting works for non-essential images like icons, borders, button states, etc.  However, for images like the company logo, profile pictures on facebook, etc.  Those <i>must</i> be embedded with img tags otherwise they disappear if the stylesheets aren&#8217;t loaded.</p>
<p>His idea is to have all images loaded from the CSS so that if stylesheets don&#8217;t load, the page loads more quickly.  Totally ignoring the fact that all browsers, especially mobile ones, have a &#8220;don&#8217;t load images&#8221; option right next to their &#8220;don&#8217;t load CSS&#8221; option.</p>
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		<title>By: Kharkhalash</title>
		<link>http://piestar.net/2010/03/25/missing-the-point-of-css/#comment-6875</link>
		<dc:creator>Kharkhalash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Apr 2010 05:21:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://piestar.net/?p=408#comment-6875</guid>
		<description>I think Ohioham might be talking about &quot;spriting&quot;. 

it&#039;s a technique which involves having all of (if not just many of) your image resources in a single fine and using clipping in CSS to display them. It&#039;s supposed to speed up page loads (and technically save some marginal amount of bandwidth) by cutting down the number of requests, since because all of the images are embedded within a single file, only one request is made (plus the html page and stylesheet) as opposed to n requests, one for each image resource.

It&#039;s stupidly convoluted, and requires a lot of extra work as well as drastically changing your approach to page design; all of your graphical resources are to be placed as DIVs with background attributes, and the css involved stands to drastically increase development time, especially on more complex, more graphics intensive layouts, and there are the aformentioned usability problems which arise. And the matter than stuff like logos, chars and pictorial images don&#039;t belong in CSS to begin with, and as such should not be sprited.

Layout and stylistic elements belong in CSS, those are what you sprite up.

If he&#039;s talking about spriting, he&#039;s right. Spriting was conceived as a means to speed up page loads (but not necessarily to conserve bandwidth, a few dozen small images can easily take up less space and thus use up less bandwidth individually than they would if they were combined into a single large image) Though to suggest that CSS itself was conceived expressly for the sake of spriting is completely stupid, not to mention that he&#039;s shot himself into the foot so many times already, it doesn&#039;t matter.

Only text is considered content? What is this, the &#039;90s?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Ohioham might be talking about &#8220;spriting&#8221;. </p>
<p>it&#8217;s a technique which involves having all of (if not just many of) your image resources in a single fine and using clipping in CSS to display them. It&#8217;s supposed to speed up page loads (and technically save some marginal amount of bandwidth) by cutting down the number of requests, since because all of the images are embedded within a single file, only one request is made (plus the html page and stylesheet) as opposed to n requests, one for each image resource.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s stupidly convoluted, and requires a lot of extra work as well as drastically changing your approach to page design; all of your graphical resources are to be placed as DIVs with background attributes, and the css involved stands to drastically increase development time, especially on more complex, more graphics intensive layouts, and there are the aformentioned usability problems which arise. And the matter than stuff like logos, chars and pictorial images don&#8217;t belong in CSS to begin with, and as such should not be sprited.</p>
<p>Layout and stylistic elements belong in CSS, those are what you sprite up.</p>
<p>If he&#8217;s talking about spriting, he&#8217;s right. Spriting was conceived as a means to speed up page loads (but not necessarily to conserve bandwidth, a few dozen small images can easily take up less space and thus use up less bandwidth individually than they would if they were combined into a single large image) Though to suggest that CSS itself was conceived expressly for the sake of spriting is completely stupid, not to mention that he&#8217;s shot himself into the foot so many times already, it doesn&#8217;t matter.</p>
<p>Only text is considered content? What is this, the &#8217;90s?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: TM Repository</title>
		<link>http://piestar.net/2010/03/25/missing-the-point-of-css/#comment-6869</link>
		<dc:creator>TM Repository</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Apr 2010 20:35:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://piestar.net/?p=408#comment-6869</guid>
		<description>You&#039;ve never built a website in your life.  Mind explaining how you display profile pictures on facebook if every single picture is different?  Uh oh, suddenly the styles have to be embedded in the HTML.  Or you&#039;re creating dynamic stylesheets that can never be cached in the browser.

Way to go Oiaohm, you&#039;ve invented the more inefficient and pointlessly difficult way of displaying images that no accessibility system can understand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;ve never built a website in your life.  Mind explaining how you display profile pictures on facebook if every single picture is different?  Uh oh, suddenly the styles have to be embedded in the HTML.  Or you&#8217;re creating dynamic stylesheets that can never be cached in the browser.</p>
<p>Way to go Oiaohm, you&#8217;ve invented the more inefficient and pointlessly difficult way of displaying images that no accessibility system can understand.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Oiaohm</title>
		<link>http://piestar.net/2010/03/25/missing-the-point-of-css/#comment-6858</link>
		<dc:creator>Oiaohm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Apr 2010 21:39:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://piestar.net/?p=408#comment-6858</guid>
		<description>Image just as accessible by use style sheet. Just need to read css reference from page and read image reference from css.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Image just as accessible by use style sheet. Just need to read css reference from page and read image reference from css.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: TM Repository</title>
		<link>http://piestar.net/2010/03/25/missing-the-point-of-css/#comment-6857</link>
		<dc:creator>TM Repository</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Apr 2010 19:57:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://piestar.net/?p=408#comment-6857</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re an idiot.  Putting the logo in the page requires MORE bandwidth since setting up the styles to &lt;i&gt;simulate&lt;/i&gt; an image tag is far greater than just using an image tag.  Logos are important images, so are charts and graphs, so are profile photos.

If you don&#039;t have those images in your actual HTML markup, then accessibility goes out the window.  You don&#039;t seem to grasp the concept of accessibility and using the correct markup for the correct situation.  YOU NEED PROPER MARKUP! CSS IS NOT A SUBSTITUTE FOR IMAGE TAGS!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re an idiot.  Putting the logo in the page requires MORE bandwidth since setting up the styles to <i>simulate</i> an image tag is far greater than just using an image tag.  Logos are important images, so are charts and graphs, so are profile photos.</p>
<p>If you don&#8217;t have those images in your actual HTML markup, then accessibility goes out the window.  You don&#8217;t seem to grasp the concept of accessibility and using the correct markup for the correct situation.  YOU NEED PROPER MARKUP! CSS IS NOT A SUBSTITUTE FOR IMAGE TAGS!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Oiaohm</title>
		<link>http://piestar.net/2010/03/25/missing-the-point-of-css/#comment-6856</link>
		<dc:creator>Oiaohm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Apr 2010 18:39:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://piestar.net/?p=408#comment-6856</guid>
		<description>Not understand purposes behind CSS. Yes centralize style but have more important to easy parse of style like images depend on connecting speed. If put images in CSS then mobile browser not spend forever downloading logo when could be downloading page.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not understand purposes behind CSS. Yes centralize style but have more important to easy parse of style like images depend on connecting speed. If put images in CSS then mobile browser not spend forever downloading logo when could be downloading page.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: TM Repository</title>
		<link>http://piestar.net/2010/03/25/missing-the-point-of-css/#comment-6831</link>
		<dc:creator>TM Repository</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Apr 2010 18:40:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://piestar.net/?p=408#comment-6831</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Thank god for PHP includes.&lt;/b&gt;

Thomas, there were these things developed long before PHP called Server Side Includes (SSI) that did the same thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_Side_Includes</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Thank god for PHP includes.</b></p>
<p>Thomas, there were these things developed long before PHP called Server Side Includes (SSI) that did the same thing.</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_Side_Includes" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_Side_Includes</a></p>
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		<title>By: Dr Loser</title>
		<link>http://piestar.net/2010/03/25/missing-the-point-of-css/#comment-6829</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr Loser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Apr 2010 14:28:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://piestar.net/?p=408#comment-6829</guid>
		<description>Er, Thomas...

That&#039;s sort of why we use frameworks and MVC and stuff -- a basic example of which is your PHP includes.  Your &quot;point&quot; about the lack of DRY in &quot;regular HTML&quot; is a little silly: HTML is just a mark-up language, after all.  It&#039;s like complaining that I&#039;ve been forced to re-use the letter &#039;a&#039; all over the place in this post.

Anyway, if you&#039;re interested in pursuing the topic, I&#039;d recommend Terrence Parr&#039;s thoughts at http://www.cs.usfca.edu/~parrt/papers/mvc.templates.pdf.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Er, Thomas&#8230;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s sort of why we use frameworks and MVC and stuff &#8212; a basic example of which is your PHP includes.  Your &#8220;point&#8221; about the lack of DRY in &#8220;regular HTML&#8221; is a little silly: HTML is just a mark-up language, after all.  It&#8217;s like complaining that I&#8217;ve been forced to re-use the letter &#8216;a&#8217; all over the place in this post.</p>
<p>Anyway, if you&#8217;re interested in pursuing the topic, I&#8217;d recommend Terrence Parr&#8217;s thoughts at <a href="http://www.cs.usfca.edu/~parrt/papers/mvc.templates.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.cs.usfca.edu/~parrt/papers/mvc.templates.pdf</a>.</p>
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